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Could be a much needed kick up the arse for Joe, he's made a few jittery errors of late, and his distribution seems to be really bad at the mo.

I know GK is a position more than any other in which where you don't want to be chopping and changing all the time, but it might help him refocus...

Are there any teams out there that regularly change their first choice keepers (not just in different competetions)? Is it really that much more counter productive than in any other position?

thoughts?

I still think Given is the better 'Keeper. Joe Hart suffers from over-rated Englishman syndrome. But he is the younger man, will keep improving, and could feasibly be in between the sticks for us 10 years down the line.

On balance, I'd probably just about keep the status quo. I do feel sorry for Shay, though, as it's unusual to be dropped despite being mostly brilliant. Bet he rues that dislocated shoulder at Arsenal that gave JH a run pre-season.

If I was Shay I would like to think that ,with Joe looking less than 100%, he had a chance of getting back in.I would hope that Mancini is speaking with Joe about his form if indeed he thinks it isnt good. All that unless of course plans are afoot to move Shay on in Jan.

As an irishman with certain biased, there is no way Given should be back in. Watching him against slazburg reminded me why hes second choice, they had one cross in the game and given stood on his line and made no attempt for it, not too mention his poor kicking.

Hart is the better keeper and has years to master the trade, Given is coming to the end of his career with no inention of learning from his mistakes and if i was him id stick with being the best second choice keeper in the world rather than go elsewhere.

Hart has made a few mistakes recently, but is that not expected from a young keeper??
Taking him out for Given at this time would surely deliver a massive dent to his confidence? I don't see a problem with sticking by him at the moment and showing a bit of confidence in him.

Our defence cleary trust Hart more than they do Given, so No

I would say yes.

Glad to see that a few more blues are picking up on Joe being lax. I understand that young keepers make mistakes and we obviously need to stick with him, but his attitude just pisses me off so much. When he fucks up, he laughs EVERY TIME. Since his comments on loan at Brum I started to dislike him. Given was treated unfairly and i feel hart behaved like a spoilt kid. How he acted in the birmingham game and his fuck ups here and there have started to get me. He was amazing vs. spurs, but in most of our recent games he has fuck all to do; then fluffs the little things he has to do.

EDIT: Also how many times did he give the ball away with lazy kicks?

Im not saying we SHOULD drop him, but i'm saying he needs to be kept on his toes and stop thinking hes the worlds best keeper.

sweenyuk wrote:Our defence cleary trust Hart more than they do Given, so No

I was just gonna say our back 4 are a lot more settled with Joe between the sticks - I'm oot

Dubciteh wrote:As an irishman with certain biased, there is no way Given should be back in. Watching him against slazburg reminded me why hes second choice, they had one cross in the game and given stood on his line and made no attempt for it, not too mention his poor kicking.

Hart is the better keeper and has years to master the trade, Given is coming to the end of his career with no inention of learning from his mistakes and if i was him id stick with being the best second choice keeper in the world rather than go elsewhere.

This is the key point.

Against Salzburg Given's kicking was appalling and that one cross would have been eaten up by Hart. Coming for crosses is a high risk business and Joe has been generally very strong all season with them. Let's hope this was his one mistake for the month.

Given will leave in January and we'll be left with Taylor as back up :-(

13021J wrote:

Dubciteh wrote:As an irishman with certain biased, there is no way Given should be back in. Watching him against slazburg reminded me why hes second choice, they had one cross in the game and given stood on his line and made no attempt for it, not too mention his poor kicking.

Hart is the better keeper and has years to master the trade, Given is coming to the end of his career with no inention of learning from his mistakes and if i was him id stick with being the best second choice keeper in the world rather than go elsewhere.

This is the key point.

Against Salzburg Given's kicking was appalling and that one cross would have been eaten up by Hart. Coming for crosses is a high risk business and Joe has been generally very strong all season with them. Let's hope this was his one mistake for the month.

Given will leave in January and we'll be left with Taylor as back up :-(

What about the rumours of Scott Loach as number 2?

In all honesty I still think Shay is the better keeper despte Harts obvious improvement. His saves at time are breathtaking, always confident facing pens and saved our arses a few times. Hart has made a few routine things look tough now and his whole cold hands excuse at Stoke was a crock of shit excuse for a save he should have made.

Add to that his drinking exploits and a cocky fergie like gum chewing thing and I'd be ok with him being sat down for a few weeks to bring him down a peg.

I'd be sorry to lose Shay because he's a top class keeper but Joe's got to be the long term future of the club and I wouldn't drop him for that bad mistake on Saturday. I'd like to see Shay given an assurance about Europa League games up to and including the Final if we get there. Maybe he could have the FA Cup matches too.

One thing's clear if we lose Shay in January we've got to find a top class number two which won't be easy.

I don't think we can use the argument that Hart's distribution has been poor recently as a reason to put Shay in when Shay's distribution is just as poor if not worse.

Joe has conceded two goals in the last 7 matches in all comps. I think the keeper is the last of our worries with those stats.

13021J wrote:

Dubciteh wrote:As an irishman with certain biased, there is no way Given should be back in. Watching him against slazburg reminded me why hes second choice, they had one cross in the game and given stood on his line and made no attempt for it, not too mention his poor kicking.

Hart is the better keeper and has years to master the trade, Given is coming to the end of his career with no inention of learning from his mistakes and if i was him id stick with being the best second choice keeper in the world rather than go elsewhere.

This is the key point.

Against Salzburg Given's kicking was appalling and that one cross would have been eaten up by Hart. Coming for crosses is a high risk business and Joe has been generally very strong all season with them. Let's hope this was his one mistake for the month.

Given will leave in January and we'll be left with Taylor as back up :-(

These quotes pretty much sum up my views. Given is a great shot-stopper, but his distribution is abysmal and he just won't come off his line. Hart isn't the perfect keeper but as well as being a great shot-stopper, he has a great presence in the area and generally deals with crosses well. His distribution definitely needs to improve but at his age, he still can develop.

At this moment, Hart is the better of the two and Given is rightly the sub-keeper.

If we do let him leave though, I hope the club ensure it's not to a rival. Although looking at the way the club made sure Bellamy didn't, I think we can be assured of that :-)

london blue 2 wrote:Joe has conceded two goals in the last 7 matches in all comps. I think the keeper is the last of our worries with those stats.

Just seems a bit shaky at times to me, tests my faith and confidence in him a little too much at the mo, doing the samba notwithstanding. And if we do have a list of 'worries' then just because something is on the bottom of that list doesn't mean it's not worth considering.

Seems people are of split opinions. Anyway, I'm not convinced either way what the right decision is, hence the thread.

I'm inclined to think that if Shay is definitely off in Jan there's no point in upsetting the apple cart, but it's it's surely the spirit of healthy competition to have someone breathing down your neck if you start to lose form, and for that threat to be real?

At the start of the season i would have prefered Shay but could understand the reasoning in starting Joe as he has such a great future ahead of him.

I would now stick with Hart without a shadow of a doubt hes been brilliant this season, it would take a drastic drop in form for me to think otherwise.

Whos number one? was the big question everyone was asking pre season and it now looks like Mancini made the right decision.

No. The defence this season has been much improved under Hart. Stick with Hart would be foolish to change it now.

Hart is the better keeper, so no. He's made a few mistakes, but so does every player, it's just that keepers' usually get punished.

I'd offer Given every europa and fa cup game to get him to stay, though. He'll win nothing if he goes to newcastle/fulham, so the chance of silverware might pacify him till summer, when we can let him go in a controlled way and make sure we can find a back up

i do not want to go back to having a 'keeper who refuses to come for a cross. no ta. given has many qualities, but lacks that one massive one - bottle on crosses. i fucking swear if we had a 'keeper prepared to come off his line, that semi at the swamp last year might have gone our way. oh, we did, he was on loan in frigging birmingham.