The Ref Today

[craigmcfc]

Who say's the ref's are getting decision's wrong; they may be getting them right, in certain quarters. Take the Anelka penalty yesterday, how many people with any knowledge of the game would give that, and if it was, why didn't Howard get a Red Card.

There have been too many 'wrong calls' for this just to be honest mistakes in my book, and I really do think that they are going beyond the call of duty to keep the status quo.

I dont think that was a pen anelka knocked the ball 3 yards to the right of Howard and ran into him, it was ridiculous!

Completely ridiculous. Anelka knew exactly what he was doing and he even looked to straighten up and aim his run directly at Howard. One day we will start to get these too

[Ted Hughes]

Ian Holloway and Chris Kamara on Goals on Sunday this morning had their views on the ref.

Kolorov incident: Good tackle , could see why the ref over-reacted as he played the ball and then the man, but both agreed was not a foul.

Penalty: Said it would have been harsh, but if your arms are up you are susceptible for the ball hitting your arm. My view is that it was a penalty as it was handball (the arm changed the flight of the ball) but wasn't deliberate so the player doesn't get booked.

Offside: Good decision, and unfortunately I have to agree with them. Barry was offside, he went for the ball making him active. From the linesmans perspective, Silva comes from behind Barry, but I think the linesman had already flagged? If that was against us and was allowed to stand we would be saying it was offside as he went for the ball and our defenders stopped. Others would be saying always play to the whistle. My problem with the decision in the same situation next week (either for or against us) that could be classed as onside. There is no consistency! I do agree that Barry was active as he went for the ball then stopped. If he stood still and didn't chase the ball then I would say it's a bad decision.

Completely agree about the inconsistency from the ref though. Mario was hacked to the ground nearly all match, especially on and around the halfway line with no repercussions to the offending player. Yaya and Kolorov both get booked on their first foul of the game? Makes no sense.

If that was against us, it would have been a goal as that's what is always given. This is one of few, if any, decisions where the linesman has given in favour of the defence in such circumstances. Normally they will wait until the player in the 'offside' position touches the ball before raising the flag, whether he moves toward the ball or not. If he doesn't touch the ball, they will play on, even if it's 50 yards offside & he stands next to the ball. It was a fucking stinker.

[Ted Hughes]

Who say's the ref's are getting decision's wrong; they may be getting them right, in certain quarters. Take the Anelka penalty yesterday, how many people with any knowledge of the game would give that, and if it was, why didn't Howard get a Red Card.

There have been too many 'wrong calls' for this just to be honest mistakes in my book, and I really do think that they are going beyond the call of duty to keep the status quo.

I dont think that was a pen anelka knocked the ball 3 yards to the right of Howard and ran into him, it was ridiculous!

Completely ridiculous. Anelka knew exactly what he was doing and he even looked to straighten up and aim his run directly at Howard. One day we will start to get these too

Completely agree. Graeme Poll said on Talkshite it was a red card too, which shows that although he's a self confessed rag lover, he's also a Chelsea fan & of course, incompetent even when he's seen the replay. Thank Christ he's retired.

[the_georgian_genius]

A fucking appalling performance from Mr Mariner today. How he manages to get so many decisions wrong is beyond me!

Disallowed a perfectly good goal.
Sent off Kolorov for a second bookable offence when he clearly won the ball.
Denied us a penalty when their man had his arm straight out at a right-angle to his body and it stopped our cross.
Showed them half as many cards when they commited nearly twice as many fouls

Why do we have to put up with this kind of crap week in week out? Mariner is so unfit that he couldn't keep up with play and was rarely anywhere near the incident he was making decisions on! He is an absolute disgrace and should never be allowed to referee again.

Even though i thought he was poor, he didn't disalow the goal - the linesman did and it wasn't a penalty, hit his chest first then his arm, cahill could do nothing to get out of the way and it wasn't going goalbound when it rebounded onto his arm.

[Ted Hughes]

A fucking appalling performance from Mr Mariner today. How he manages to get so many decisions wrong is beyond me!

Disallowed a perfectly good goal.
Sent off Kolorov for a second bookable offence when he clearly won the ball.
Denied us a penalty when their man had his arm straight out at a right-angle to his body and it stopped our cross.
Showed them half as many cards when they commited nearly twice as many fouls

Why do we have to put up with this kind of crap week in week out? Mariner is so unfit that he couldn't keep up with play and was rarely anywhere near the incident he was making decisions on! He is an absolute disgrace and should never be allowed to referee again.

Even though i thought he was poor, he didn't disalow the goal - the linesman did and it wasn't a penalty, hit his chest first then his arm, cahill could do nothing to get out of the way and it wasn't going goalbound when it rebounded onto his arm.

That's what I initially thought but when I saw in detail that his arm was stuck out at right angles to his body, there was no reason for it to be there other than to try & block the original shot. Therefore even though it hit his chest 1st, it's still a pen.

[the_georgian_genius]

A fucking appalling performance from Mr Mariner today. How he manages to get so many decisions wrong is beyond me!

Disallowed a perfectly good goal.
Sent off Kolorov for a second bookable offence when he clearly won the ball.
Denied us a penalty when their man had his arm straight out at a right-angle to his body and it stopped our cross.
Showed them half as many cards when they commited nearly twice as many fouls

Why do we have to put up with this kind of crap week in week out? Mariner is so unfit that he couldn't keep up with play and was rarely anywhere near the incident he was making decisions on! He is an absolute disgrace and should never be allowed to referee again.

Even though i thought he was poor, he didn't disalow the goal - the linesman did and it wasn't a penalty, hit his chest first then his arm, cahill could do nothing to get out of the way and it wasn't going goalbound when it rebounded onto his arm.

That's what I initially thought but when I saw in detail that his arm was stuck out at right angles to his body, there was no reason for it to be there other than to try & block the original shot. Therefore even though it hit his chest 1st, it's still a pen.

I imagined you saw that in slow motion, in real time there is no way it hit his chest and he had the time to stop it going out for a corner with his arm as that is where it was heading.

[Ted Hughes]

A fucking appalling performance from Mr Mariner today. How he manages to get so many decisions wrong is beyond me!

Disallowed a perfectly good goal.
Sent off Kolorov for a second bookable offence when he clearly won the ball.
Denied us a penalty when their man had his arm straight out at a right-angle to his body and it stopped our cross.
Showed them half as many cards when they commited nearly twice as many fouls

Why do we have to put up with this kind of crap week in week out? Mariner is so unfit that he couldn't keep up with play and was rarely anywhere near the incident he was making decisions on! He is an absolute disgrace and should never be allowed to referee again.

Even though i thought he was poor, he didn't disalow the goal - the linesman did and it wasn't a penalty, hit his chest first then his arm, cahill could do nothing to get out of the way and it wasn't going goalbound when it rebounded onto his arm.

That's what I initially thought but when I saw in detail that his arm was stuck out at right angles to his body, there was no reason for it to be there other than to try & block the original shot. Therefore even though it hit his chest 1st, it's still a pen.

I imagined you saw that in slow motion, in real time there is no way it hit his chest and he had the time to stop it going out for a corner with his arm as that is where it was heading.

I meant that his arm was out to stop the ball before it hit his chest. He was making a wide target to stop the ball. His arm was out there to stop the ball. It did. It doesn't matter that it had changed direction, there is nothing in the rules to allow for that. It's a pen.

[the_georgian_genius]

A fucking appalling performance from Mr Mariner today. How he manages to get so many decisions wrong is beyond me!

Disallowed a perfectly good goal.
Sent off Kolorov for a second bookable offence when he clearly won the ball.
Denied us a penalty when their man had his arm straight out at a right-angle to his body and it stopped our cross.
Showed them half as many cards when they commited nearly twice as many fouls

Why do we have to put up with this kind of crap week in week out? Mariner is so unfit that he couldn't keep up with play and was rarely anywhere near the incident he was making decisions on! He is an absolute disgrace and should never be allowed to referee again.

Even though i thought he was poor, he didn't disalow the goal - the linesman did and it wasn't a penalty, hit his chest first then his arm, cahill could do nothing to get out of the way and it wasn't going goalbound when it rebounded onto his arm.

That's what I initially thought but when I saw in detail that his arm was stuck out at right angles to his body, there was no reason for it to be there other than to try & block the original shot. Therefore even though it hit his chest 1st, it's still a pen.

I imagined you saw that in slow motion, in real time there is no way it hit his chest and he had the time to stop it going out for a corner with his arm as that is where it was heading.

I meant that his arm was out to stop the ball before it hit his chest. He was making a wide target to stop the ball. His arm was out there to stop the ball. It did. It doesn't matter that it had changed direction, there is nothing in the rules to allow for that. It's a pen.

Thats natural instinct isn't it? You hardly see any players go to block the ball with their hands behind their backs. I didn't think it was a pen anyway, for me it hit his chest first and it was ball to hand rather than the other way round.

[Ted Hughes]

It is natural instict but it's still sticking your arm out to stop the ball rather than it hitting your arm in a natural position. If you stick your arms above your head & the ball bounces off your head onto your arm, a pen will be given (unless you're a Utd player).

This is the same thing.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

Oh give over. Some city fans make out we are the only team who gets decisions against us. We have had decisions gone our way plenty aswell this season. Penalty at Newcastle, them not gettign a stonewall penatly, offside goal at Blackpool, they had a perfectly good goal disallowed, Tevez fouled their player for his second etc. Yes it was a bad referee but people continuously moaning about the ref is a bit babyish.

[Beefymcfc]

A fucking appalling performance from Mr Mariner today. How he manages to get so many decisions wrong is beyond me!

Disallowed a perfectly good goal.
Sent off Kolorov for a second bookable offence when he clearly won the ball.
Denied us a penalty when their man had his arm straight out at a right-angle to his body and it stopped our cross.
Showed them half as many cards when they commited nearly twice as many fouls

Why do we have to put up with this kind of crap week in week out? Mariner is so unfit that he couldn't keep up with play and was rarely anywhere near the incident he was making decisions on! He is an absolute disgrace and should never be allowed to referee again.

Even though i thought he was poor, he didn't disalow the goal - the linesman did and it wasn't a penalty, hit his chest first then his arm, cahill could do nothing to get out of the way and it wasn't going goalbound when it rebounded onto his arm.

Eh? So if the arm stops the ball from going in the goal, or changes the direction of the ball away from goal, it shouldn't be a penalty? I remember Lescott jumping with his arm's up and gave away a penalty, is there a difference, he couldn't get his arm's out of the way?

[the_georgian_genius]

A fucking appalling performance from Mr Mariner today. How he manages to get so many decisions wrong is beyond me!

Disallowed a perfectly good goal.
Sent off Kolorov for a second bookable offence when he clearly won the ball.
Denied us a penalty when their man had his arm straight out at a right-angle to his body and it stopped our cross.
Showed them half as many cards when they commited nearly twice as many fouls

Why do we have to put up with this kind of crap week in week out? Mariner is so unfit that he couldn't keep up with play and was rarely anywhere near the incident he was making decisions on! He is an absolute disgrace and should never be allowed to referee again.

Even though i thought he was poor, he didn't disalow the goal - the linesman did and it wasn't a penalty, hit his chest first then his arm, cahill could do nothing to get out of the way and it wasn't going goalbound when it rebounded onto his arm.

Eh? So if the arm stops the ball from going in the goal, or changes the direction of the ball away from goal, it shouldn't be a penalty? I remember Lescott jumping with his arm's up and gave away a penalty, is there a difference, he couldn't get his arm's out of the way?

The ball was blocked by his chest it then was going for a corner before it hit the arm. I was always under the impression that ball to hand only applies when a shot is definatley going in i.e if a shot is blocked on the line by a hand even though it was ball to hand then that has stopped a clear goal, with yesterday it was blocked by a legal part of the body before being saved from going for a corner by a hand which was ball to hand which meant it was not a penalty?

[Beefymcfc]

A fucking appalling performance from Mr Mariner today. How he manages to get so many decisions wrong is beyond me!

Disallowed a perfectly good goal.
Sent off Kolorov for a second bookable offence when he clearly won the ball.
Denied us a penalty when their man had his arm straight out at a right-angle to his body and it stopped our cross.
Showed them half as many cards when they commited nearly twice as many fouls

Why do we have to put up with this kind of crap week in week out? Mariner is so unfit that he couldn't keep up with play and was rarely anywhere near the incident he was making decisions on! He is an absolute disgrace and should never be allowed to referee again.

Even though i thought he was poor, he didn't disalow the goal - the linesman did and it wasn't a penalty, hit his chest first then his arm, cahill could do nothing to get out of the way and it wasn't going goalbound when it rebounded onto his arm.

Eh? So if the arm stops the ball from going in the goal, or changes the direction of the ball away from goal, it shouldn't be a penalty? I remember Lescott jumping with his arm's up and gave away a penalty, is there a difference, he couldn't get his arm's out of the way?

The ball was blocked by his chest it then was going for a corner before it hit the arm. I was always under the impression that ball to hand only applies when a shot is definatley going in i.e if a shot is blocked on the line by a hand even though it was ball to hand then that has stopped a clear goal, with yesterday it was blocked by a legal part of the body before being saved from going for a corner by a hand which was ball to hand which meant it was not a penalty?

I've watched the replay on a few occassions and the ball, for me, was heading for the bottom left corner after hitting his chest. However, does it really matter? The fact is that his arm was raised which automatically puts the player at the discretion of the referee, and for the ball to then move in another direction away from the goal means that it should be a penalty, regardless if it was ball to arm. And when you think about it, it is still hand to ball because he had his hand up there in the first place, and every defender knows that and that is why they now keep their hands by their sides or behind their backs.

[the_georgian_genius]

A fucking appalling performance from Mr Mariner today. How he manages to get so many decisions wrong is beyond me!

Disallowed a perfectly good goal.
Sent off Kolorov for a second bookable offence when he clearly won the ball.
Denied us a penalty when their man had his arm straight out at a right-angle to his body and it stopped our cross.
Showed them half as many cards when they commited nearly twice as many fouls

Why do we have to put up with this kind of crap week in week out? Mariner is so unfit that he couldn't keep up with play and was rarely anywhere near the incident he was making decisions on! He is an absolute disgrace and should never be allowed to referee again.

Even though i thought he was poor, he didn't disalow the goal - the linesman did and it wasn't a penalty, hit his chest first then his arm, cahill could do nothing to get out of the way and it wasn't going goalbound when it rebounded onto his arm.

Eh? So if the arm stops the ball from going in the goal, or changes the direction of the ball away from goal, it shouldn't be a penalty? I remember Lescott jumping with his arm's up and gave away a penalty, is there a difference, he couldn't get his arm's out of the way?

The ball was blocked by his chest it then was going for a corner before it hit the arm. I was always under the impression that ball to hand only applies when a shot is definatley going in i.e if a shot is blocked on the line by a hand even though it was ball to hand then that has stopped a clear goal, with yesterday it was blocked by a legal part of the body before being saved from going for a corner by a hand which was ball to hand which meant it was not a penalty?

I've watched the replay on a few occassions and the ball, for me, was heading for the bottom left corner after hitting his chest. However, does it really matter? The fact is that his arm was raised which automatically puts the player at the discretion of the referee, and for the ball to then move in another direction away from the goal means that it should be a penalty, regardless if it was ball to arm. And when you think about it, it is still hand to ball because he had his hand up there in the first place, and every defender knows that and that is why they now keep their hands by their sides or behind their backs.

The thing is though it wasn't just ball to arm, it was ball to chest to arm and the chest was the main reason the ball didn't go goalwards not the arm. Its always a grey area in the penalty box anyway, take that incident 25 yards up the field and it is a free kick.

[Beefymcfc]

Even though i thought he was poor, he didn't disalow the goal - the linesman did and it wasn't a penalty, hit his chest first then his arm, cahill could do nothing to get out of the way and it wasn't going goalbound when it rebounded onto his arm.

Eh? So if the arm stops the ball from going in the goal, or changes the direction of the ball away from goal, it shouldn't be a penalty? I remember Lescott jumping with his arm's up and gave away a penalty, is there a difference, he couldn't get his arm's out of the way?

The ball was blocked by his chest it then was going for a corner before it hit the arm. I was always under the impression that ball to hand only applies when a shot is definatley going in i.e if a shot is blocked on the line by a hand even though it was ball to hand then that has stopped a clear goal, with yesterday it was blocked by a legal part of the body before being saved from going for a corner by a hand which was ball to hand which meant it was not a penalty?

I've watched the replay on a few occassions and the ball, for me, was heading for the bottom left corner after hitting his chest. However, does it really matter? The fact is that his arm was raised which automatically puts the player at the discretion of the referee, and for the ball to then move in another direction away from the goal means that it should be a penalty, regardless if it was ball to arm. And when you think about it, it is still hand to ball because he had his hand up there in the first place, and every defender knows that and that is why they now keep their hands by their sides or behind their backs.

The thing is though it wasn't just ball to arm, it was ball to chest to arm and the chest was the main reason the ball didn't go goalwards not the arm. Its always a grey area in the penalty box anyway, take that incident 25 yards up the field and it is a free kick.

So, it should've been a free-kick inside the box then ;-)

[the_georgian_genius]

So, it should've been a free-kick inside the box then ;-)

I'm not saying it should be, i'm saying it would be ;-)

[Ted Hughes]

Oh give over. Some city fans make out we are the only team who gets decisions against us. We have had decisions gone our way plenty aswell this season. Penalty at Newcastle, them not gettign a stonewall penatly, offside goal at Blackpool, they had a perfectly good goal disallowed, Tevez fouled their player for his second etc. Yes it was a bad referee but people continuously moaning about the ref is a bit babyish.

Interesting theory; because we got a couple of decisions in our favour we have to ignore shit refereeing?

A few games this weekend...

Team...........Possession........Fouls.........Cards

Chelsea.........57%..................8.............1
Everton.........43%................13..............4
Brum............50%................15..............1
Spurs............50%................10..............1
Wigan...........65%................12..............1
Stoke............35%................10..............2
Blkbrn...........42%..................9..............0
Wolves..........58%.................13.............2
Arsel.............55%..................7.............0
Fulham...........45%.................7.............0
BOLTON..........41%............TWENTY.........TWO
CITY..............59%...............12.............FIVE

So only Everton away at Stamford Bridge, were as dirty as nasty fouling City & Bolton's 20 fouls were mainly mild ones. Or, the ref was a twat.

[Rae4685]

I like a good moan like the rest of you (usually when we lose) but that was definitely not a penalty and the decision to disallow the offside goal was spot on. Yeah I shouted f**k off at the time but on reflection spot on. Also Kolorov was stupid and inexperienced in the prem by diving in to a challenge straight after a yellow and only has himself to blame. Having said that I do feel we pick up yellows too easily but when you consider the actual offences then it's not as clear cut as your table above, for instance tevez was his own fault and 2 of them were kolorov so take those cards into context and it's abit more realistic

[Ted Hughes]

I like a good moan like the rest of you (usually when we lose) but that was definitely not a penalty and the decision to disallow the offside goal was spot on. Yeah I shouted f**k off at the time but on reflection spot on. Also Kolorov was stupid and inexperienced in the prem by diving in to a challenge straight after a yellow and only has himself to blame. Having said that I do feel we pick up yellows too easily but when you consider the actual offences then it's not as clear cut as your table above, for instance tevez was his own fault and 2 of them were kolorov so take those cards into context and it's abit more realistic

A card is a card. It doesn't specify what they're for. Have a look at the number of bookings Bolton got, compared to the average. Have a look at the number of fouls they comitted. Have a look at the number of fouls City comitted compared to the average & the number of cards.

Both coincidentally more than 50% different to almost everyone else barEverton, who were away at Chelsea! City more bookings than Stoke away from home when City totally dominated the game & possession at home yet Stoke only had the ball 35% of the time? So Stoke chasing a team around, comitted less than 50% bookable fouls compared to City? City twice as bad as Stoke in the tackle? Really? And twice as bad as Blackburn? Meanwhile 20 fouls from Bolton & only 2 bookings? You thought that was correct at the time did you? Also you're one of the few people in the whole world who thinks the offside was right. I bet the bloke who flagged it doesn't.

[Swales4ever]

Ted is Bright and totally spot on the penalty.
The rule is clear and does not speak of will or diverting the ball.
This had been debating loads of time either by the ruling Body and the Referees' federation of the single countries. The choice is/should deemed to avoid a sort of "power of interpretation" of each referee which naturally leads to multiple standards of decisions.
Any time an hand not attached to his body deflects a ball shooted at goal - inside the box - the penalty must be awarded.