With the division on this forum...

[Ted Hughes]

some think 4th is good some think it lacks ambition.

Thing is BBS is that last season EVERYONE said that it has to be fourth next season

Shit...I even put up a poll about what would you prefer? Silverware or 4th? And the majority wanted 4th FFS

Now it seems we have ideas about walking before we have learnt to crawl...4th is no longer good enough...we need the title now...seriously...some people are in cloud cuckoo land

I think we should aim for the title. I think it's a huge mistake aiming for 4th & it could cost us. I'm totally happy to finish 4th but I don't rate the top 3 teams at all & I think we should go for it & try to win every game, even if it means losing one or two, rather than looking at draws as 'decent results' because we're 3 points ahead of Bolton.

Your right IBH people did opt for 4th. But that is only the fans! I cant for a minut imagine that the club, Mancini, the staff and the players are thinking we are just going for 4th. They will be going for the best they can.. and at this stage that is the Title.
We could be 5pts off the top with 3 games to play and still get it.. so...

For the record i was hoping we could tilt for the title and i still am... that doesn't mean i am expecting it to flow into a bag like sand through a funnel and i am looking at this stage with a lot of patience and just see how we go along. I am with Mancini's view that if we can stay in touch while we are building and be close enough by the last 3rd of the season then we will have every chance of going for it... primarily because we will then quite likely be coming into our own as a team. As i have stated before i expect us to be the best team in the league by the final stages of the season!

As I've said before, you may well be right but imagine if we are the best team in the league by then but we're watching the rags holding up the trophy purely because of missed opportunities now? I'm not sure if the 'everything's ok because we're on target for 4th' mentality is one of the reasons we're dropping these points; we don't have to win. We have a safety net because we don't care what the top 3 do, we're only trying to be 4th. we just have to nose in front of Spurs & Liverpool. Would Mercer/Allison, Clough or even Kenny Dalgleish have won the league if they'd decided at the start of the season that they were aiming for 4th?

Imo the brainwashing of the PL; that the established teams are invincible, is blinding us to the opportunity & we're not going balls out to win every game. As Andy Gray said yesterday; there are no outstanding teams in the Prem this season.

[Beeks]

some think 4th is good some think it lacks ambition.

Thing is BBS is that last season EVERYONE said that it has to be fourth next season

Shit...I even put up a poll about what would you prefer? Silverware or 4th? And the majority wanted 4th FFS

Now it seems we have ideas about walking before we have learnt to crawl...4th is no longer good enough...we need the title now...seriously...some people are in cloud cuckoo land

I think we should aim for the title. I think it's a huge mistake aiming for 4th & it could cost us. I'm totally happy to finish 4th but I don't rate the top 3 teams at all & I think we should go for it & try to win every game, even if it means losing one or two, rather than looking at draws as 'decent results' because we're 3 points ahead of Bolton.

Your right IBH people did opt for 4th. But that is only the fans! I cant for a minut imagine that the club, Mancini, the staff and the players are thinking we are just going for 4th. They will be going for the best they can.. and at this stage that is the Title.
We could be 5pts off the top with 3 games to play and still get it.. so...

For the record i was hoping we could tilt for the title and i still am... that doesn't mean i am expecting it to flow into a bag like sand through a funnel and i am looking at this stage with a lot of patience and just see how we go along. I am with Mancini's view that if we can stay in touch while we are building and be close enough by the last 3rd of the season then we will have every chance of going for it... primarily because we will then quite likely be coming into our own as a team. As i have stated before i expect us to be the best team in the league by the final stages of the season!

As I've said before, you may well be right but imagine if we are the best team in the league by then but we're watching the rags holding up the trophy purely because of missed opportunities now? I'm not sure if the 'everything's ok because we're on target for 4th' mentality is one of the reasons we're dropping these points; we don't have to win. We have a safety net because we don't care what the top 3 do, we're only trying to be 4th. we just have to nose in front of Spurs & Liverpool. Would Mercer/Allison, Clough or even Kenny Dalgleish have won the league if they'd decided at the start of the season that they were aiming for 4th?

Imo the brainwashing of the PL; that the established teams are invincible, is blinding us to the opportunity & we're not going balls out to win every game. As Andy Gray said yesterday; there are no outstanding teams in the Prem this season.

Do you not think though Ted...as Mancini might think...that going 'balls out' might turn some of those predicted 1 points into losses?

Question is do we go balls out every game for wins which could result in gaps in the defence leading to more discontent and maybe losing out on the CL spot?

Personally I would take 1-0 wins and 0-0 draws all the way up until May and a CL berth rather than some exciting 4-3 losses

All day every day

[mcfc1632]

I think that a position that guarantees CL football without some early elimination round would be the minimum - FFS could you imagine next August!!! - now that would be typical CITY

[brite blu sky]

some think 4th is good some think it lacks ambition.

Thing is BBS is that last season EVERYONE said that it has to be fourth next season

Shit...I even put up a poll about what would you prefer? Silverware or 4th? And the majority wanted 4th FFS

Now it seems we have ideas about walking before we have learnt to crawl...4th is no longer good enough...we need the title now...seriously...some people are in cloud cuckoo land

I think we should aim for the title. I think it's a huge mistake aiming for 4th & it could cost us. I'm totally happy to finish 4th but I don't rate the top 3 teams at all & I think we should go for it & try to win every game, even if it means losing one or two, rather than looking at draws as 'decent results' because we're 3 points ahead of Bolton.

Your right IBH people did opt for 4th. But that is only the fans! I cant for a minut imagine that the club, Mancini, the staff and the players are thinking we are just going for 4th. They will be going for the best they can.. and at this stage that is the Title.
We could be 5pts off the top with 3 games to play and still get it.. so...

For the record i was hoping we could tilt for the title and i still am... that doesn't mean i am expecting it to flow into a bag like sand through a funnel and i am looking at this stage with a lot of patience and just see how we go along. I am with Mancini's view that if we can stay in touch while we are building and be close enough by the last 3rd of the season then we will have every chance of going for it... primarily because we will then quite likely be coming into our own as a team. As i have stated before i expect us to be the best team in the league by the final stages of the season!

As I've said before, you may well be right but imagine if we are the best team in the league by then but we're watching the rags holding up the trophy purely because of missed opportunities now? I'm not sure if the 'everything's ok because we're on target for 4th' mentality is one of the reasons we're dropping these points; we don't have to win. We have a safety net because we don't care what the top 3 do, we're only trying to be 4th. we just have to nose in front of Spurs & Liverpool. Would Mercer/Allison, Clough or even Kenny Dalgleish have won the league if they'd decided at the start of the season that they were aiming for 4th?

Imo the brainwashing of the PL; that the established teams are invincible, is blinding us to the opportunity & we're not going balls out to win every game. As Andy Gray said yesterday; there are no outstanding teams in the Prem this season.

Well if it takes us to near the end of the season to be the best team.. so be it. If the form we have now is the achilles heel that loses us the title then i will just have to live with that im afraid, I for one dont buy into your perspective that we have had enough time already and that 'going for it' football right now would pay off any better, you dont know that, i dont know it and neither does anyone else. Because you percieve a lack of that attitude and want that attitude it colours the way you are looking at us and Bob, you may be right, but you may be wrong. I love attacking and ambitious intent but i am also aware that very few teams that are successful in recent years have only that in their locker.. and the really big point is that ALL of those teams have had a system and a team together for a long time.. methinks that makes a wee bit of a difference.

[Ted Hughes]

Do you not think though Ted...as Mancini might think...that going 'balls out' might turn some of those predicted 1 points into losses?

Question is do we go balls out every game for wins which could result in gaps in the defence leading to more discontent and maybe losing out on the CL spot?

Personally I would take 1-0 wins and 0-0 draws all the way up until May and a CL berth rather than some exciting 4-3 losses

All day every day

The thing is, one victory = 3 draws. A win v Blackburn or Birmingham means the rags result is a bonus. Imo the secret of winning trophies for the most part is not being afraid to lose. Occasionally you have to shut up shop but I don't think Mancini is doing that every game. Some games we just don't attack with any purpose even when we try & the question I'm asking is whether the safety net of 4th is allowing us to play like that & we've got no edge to our play.

[Beefymcfc]

Do you not think though Ted...as Mancini might think...that going 'balls out' might turn some of those predicted 1 points into losses?

Question is do we go balls out every game for wins which could result in gaps in the defence leading to more discontent and maybe losing out on the CL spot?

Personally I would take 1-0 wins and 0-0 draws all the way up until May and a CL berth rather than some exciting 4-3 losses

All day every day

The thing is, one victory = 3 draws. A win v Blackburn or Birmingham means the rags result is a bonus. Imo the secret of winning trophies for the most part is not being afraid to lose. Occasionally you have to shut up shop but I don't think Mancini is doing that every game. Some games we just don't attack with any purpose even when we try & the question I'm asking is whether the safety net of 4th is allowing us to play like that & we've got no edge to our play.

What, so you're trying to tell us that 2 losses and a win is the same as 3 draws? Don't talk shit man!

[Ted Hughes]

Well if it takes us to near the end of the season to be the best team.. so be it. If the form we have now is the achilles heel that loses us the title then i will just have to live with that im afraid, I for one dont buy into your perspective that we have had enough time already and that 'going for it' football right now would pay off any better, you dont know that, i dont know it and neither does anyone else. Because you percieve a lack of that attitude and want that attitude it colours the way you are looking at us and Bob, you may be right, but you may be wrong. I love attacking and ambitious intent but i am also aware that very few teams that are successful in recent years have only that in their locker.. and the really big point is that ALL of those teams have had a system and a team together for a long time.. methinks that makes a wee bit of a difference.

I haven't said we've had enough time already I don't care about that. You don't have to be Spain to chuck another striker on for the last 5 mins at home to Birmingham & bombard the penalty area without keeping 3 defensive midfielderrs on the halfway line. How can we not be good enough to throw the kitchen sink at Birmingham or Blackburn at home?! We were way way above that level of ambition when Sven was here!!

[brite blu sky]

Do you not think though Ted...as Mancini might think...that going 'balls out' might turn some of those predicted 1 points into losses?

Question is do we go balls out every game for wins which could result in gaps in the defence leading to more discontent and maybe losing out on the CL spot?

Personally I would take 1-0 wins and 0-0 draws all the way up until May and a CL berth rather than some exciting 4-3 losses

All day every day

The thing is, one victory = 3 draws. A win v Blackburn or Birmingham means the rags result is a bonus. Imo the secret of winning trophies for the most part is not being afraid to lose. Occasionally you have to shut up shop but I don't think Mancini is doing that every game. Some games we just don't attack with any purpose even when we try & the question I'm asking is whether the safety net of 4th is allowing us to play like that & we've got no edge to our play.

Look the thing is that this is mainly on the back of failing to duff Brum right after a defensive performance against a defensive rags, so whatever anyone says i dont believe what is being bandied around at the moment is not a reaction to that.
Look at the Brum game we were trying like fuck to break them down and it didn't happen by a squeek, the players performed quite flat and not together, there was not much wrong with the set up or tactics, the players just didnt perform with clinical expertise.
We are trying to read too much into that as it is fuclin disappointing, truth is we are not there yet and possibly wont be for a while.. there will be more leeway to go gung-ho when needed when we are better at the basics, till then imo we have to keep at it and build that understanding. The players and the manager will look at these performances and will see what we see and more besides, it will ultimately push them more and give them insight in how to move on and get better. It is what it is all about.

[Original Dub]

I don't think there's a division mate.

There's one or two want the manager out immediately and then there's loads that are bored with how we play football and may want him out in the future if it continues. There's also those who jump down people's throats for voicing any concern.

But a division says to me that there is a straight pro/anti Mancini divide and I don't believe we've reached that point yet. Hopefully we never will!

But lets for one second say there is a division - which "side" are you on?

[brite blu sky]

Well if it takes us to near the end of the season to be the best team.. so be it. If the form we have now is the achilles heel that loses us the title then i will just have to live with that im afraid, I for one dont buy into your perspective that we have had enough time already and that 'going for it' football right now would pay off any better, you dont know that, i dont know it and neither does anyone else. Because you percieve a lack of that attitude and want that attitude it colours the way you are looking at us and Bob, you may be right, but you may be wrong. I love attacking and ambitious intent but i am also aware that very few teams that are successful in recent years have only that in their locker.. and the really big point is that ALL of those teams have had a system and a team together for a long time.. methinks that makes a wee bit of a difference.

I haven't said we've had enough time already I don't care about that. You don't have to be Spain to chuck another striker on for the last 5 mins at home to Birmingham & bombard the penalty area without keeping 3 defensive midfielderrs on the halfway line. How can we not be good enough to throw the kitchen sink at Birmingham or Blackburn at home?! We were way way above that level of ambition when Sven was here!!

cant be arsed digging it out, but im sorry Ted you said that the other day and we discussed it.

[Beefymcfc]

Ha ha ha, SSN are reporting the Chelsea loss as the 'Dooms Day Scenrio'. Quality.

[Ted Hughes]

Do you not think though Ted...as Mancini might think...that going 'balls out' might turn some of those predicted 1 points into losses?

Question is do we go balls out every game for wins which could result in gaps in the defence leading to more discontent and maybe losing out on the CL spot?

Personally I would take 1-0 wins and 0-0 draws all the way up until May and a CL berth rather than some exciting 4-3 losses

All day every day

The thing is, one victory = 3 draws. A win v Blackburn or Birmingham means the rags result is a bonus. Imo the secret of winning trophies for the most part is not being afraid to lose. Occasionally you have to shut up shop but I don't think Mancini is doing that every game. Some games we just don't attack with any purpose even when we try & the question I'm asking is whether the safety net of 4th is allowing us to play like that & we've got no edge to our play.

Look the thing is that this is mainly on the back of failing to duff Brum right after a defensive performance against a defensive rags, so whatever anyone says i dont believe what is being bandied around at the moment is not a reaction to that.
Look at the Brum game we were trying like fuck to break them down and it didn't happen by a squeek, the players performed quite flat and not together, there was not much wrong with the set up or tactics, the players just didnt perform with clinical expertise.
We are trying to read too much into that as it is fuclin disappointing, truth is we are not there yet and possibly wont be for a while.. there will be more leeway to go gung-ho when needed when we are better at the basics, till then imo we have to keep at it and build that understanding. The players and the manager will look at these performances and will see what we see and more besides, it will ultimately push them more and give them insight in how to move on and get better. It is what it is all about.

We don't need to be 'there yet' to try & win these games. We've been doing ok winning similar games for years with vastly inferior teams against vastly superior teams in the rags' case. If we win one & lose one, we're higher up the league. We're at home.

[Beeks]

But lets for one second say there is a division - which "side" are you on?

At this point i'm cautiously on Mancinis

Teams are built from the back and I think that he will be a success here...that's not to say I will not jump to the other side if he fails...I just believe he has not yet been given a fair crack of the whip to be jumping down his throat just yet...funnily enough I felt the same way about Hughes

[brite blu sky]

Do you not think though Ted...as Mancini might think...that going 'balls out' might turn some of those predicted 1 points into losses?

Question is do we go balls out every game for wins which could result in gaps in the defence leading to more discontent and maybe losing out on the CL spot?

Personally I would take 1-0 wins and 0-0 draws all the way up until May and a CL berth rather than some exciting 4-3 losses

All day every day

The thing is, one victory = 3 draws. A win v Blackburn or Birmingham means the rags result is a bonus. Imo the secret of winning trophies for the most part is not being afraid to lose. Occasionally you have to shut up shop but I don't think Mancini is doing that every game. Some games we just don't attack with any purpose even when we try & the question I'm asking is whether the safety net of 4th is allowing us to play like that & we've got no edge to our play.

Look the thing is that this is mainly on the back of failing to duff Brum right after a defensive performance against a defensive rags, so whatever anyone says i dont believe what is being bandied around at the moment is not a reaction to that.
Look at the Brum game we were trying like fuck to break them down and it didn't happen by a squeek, the players performed quite flat and not together, there was not much wrong with the set up or tactics, the players just didnt perform with clinical expertise.
We are trying to read too much into that as it is fuclin disappointing, truth is we are not there yet and possibly wont be for a while.. there will be more leeway to go gung-ho when needed when we are better at the basics, till then imo we have to keep at it and build that understanding. The players and the manager will look at these performances and will see what we see and more besides, it will ultimately push them more and give them insight in how to move on and get better. It is what it is all about.

We don't need to be 'there yet' to try & win these games. We've been doing ok winning similar games for years with vastly inferior teams against vastly superior teams in the rags' case. If we win one & lose one, we're higher up the league. We're at home.

Home form or results is our problem though.
List the PL home games so far and remember each game and the result.
the teams that came and sat there we really struggled to break down.
the teams that came and played or tried to we beat.

What does that suggest?

[Ted Hughes]

I should add; it's rare that rags or Chelsea at their best win these games with clinical expertise. They just keep relentlessly attacking the box & cause panic. Often a mistake by the away side determines it. How much panic do we cause?

[brite blu sky]

I should add; it's rare that rags or Chelsea at their best win these games with clinical expertise. They just keep relentlessly attacking the box & cause panic. Often a mistake by the away side determines it. How much panic do we cause?

Less.. as the teams you mention are well versed in keeping the ball and keeping the pressure up and finding little spaces to cause panic. Bottom line is they know each other better and know the tactic better.

[Beeks]

Bottom line is they know each other better

Another valid point that never gets taken into consideration here

[DoomMerchant]

But lets for one second say there is a division - which "side" are you on?

At this point i'm cautiously on Mancinis

Teams are built from the back and I think that he will be a success here...that's not to say I will not jump to the other side if he fails...I just believe he has not yet been given a fair crack of the whip to be jumping down his throat just yet...funnily enough I felt the same way about Hughes

after some time away these last two days, i'd say that i probably agree with you Beeks. I am however suspicious tho that someone like Steve Bruce could be getting more from this side than Mancini is...and that doesn't make me feel so uhm "awesome."

Mancini in my opinion is a real fighter tho...he's unlikely to go down easily. I hope i am right.

i felt like it was Hughes time to go...i don't quite feel that way about Mancini yet, but he could have me there wrapped up in that horrible-feeling state by December if he keeps riding his luck.

cheers

[Ted Hughes]

I should add; it's rare that rags or Chelsea at their best win these games with clinical expertise. They just keep relentlessly attacking the box & cause panic. Often a mistake by the away side determines it. How much panic do we cause?

Less.. as the teams you mention are well versed in keeping the ball and keeping the pressure up and finding little spaces to cause panic. Bottom line is they know each other better and know the tactic better.

It's not just tactics though it's mentality; that's what I'm talking about with this 4th place mentality compared to a renlentless trophy hunting one. When the rags are at their best, they go at the penalty are like their lives depend on it. They fly in, hammer the ball across goal, wingers fullbacks centre halves everyone charging in. THEN suddenly they go back to a clever little one two & the oppo aren't ready for it, game over .

We talk about developing a winning mentality but we're actually developing a 'lets not worry about it' mentality flicking the ball sideways as if we've got all day. We need purpose & a desire to win in the last 3rd not just tactics & ambitions of 4th place.

[DoomMerchant]

I should add; it's rare that rags or Chelsea at their best win these games with clinical expertise. They just keep relentlessly attacking the box & cause panic. Often a mistake by the away side determines it. How much panic do we cause?

Less.. as the teams you mention are well versed in keeping the ball and keeping the pressure up and finding little spaces to cause panic. Bottom line is they know each other better and know the tactic better.

It's not just tactics though it's mentality; that's what I'm talking about with this 4th place mentality compared to a renlentless trophy hunting one. When the rags are at their best, they go at the penalty are like their lives depend on it. They fly in, hammer the ball across goal, wingers fullbacks centre halves everyone charging in. THEN suddenly they go back to a clever little one two & the oppo aren't ready for it, game over .

We talk about developing a winning mentality but we're actually developing a 'lets not worry about it' mentality flicking the ball sideways as if we've got all day. We need purpose & a desire to win in the last 3rd not just tactics & ambitions of 4th place.

i would[strike]n't[/strike] be surprised if we didn't have the best stats in terms of # of passes and passing % in the entire fuclin league at this point.

We make Arsenal look like barbarians at the gate with the way we fanny about attacking the goal. Mancini needs to unleash hell and see what happens and trust the defensive framework he's put in place and see what happens. just my 2 cents. or pence. whatever.

cheers

EDIT: nothing like a moronic double-negative to disprove my own point. eh.