Toothless City

[DoomMerchant]

Had we started NDJ and Jinky yesterday i believe we'd have trounced those fuclin clowns.

that is all.

[Ted Hughes]

Had we started NDJ and Jinky yesterday i believe we'd have trounced those fuclin clowns.

that is all.

I said on another thread that I recon we need to find another DeJong to step in when he's not available. Imo the midfield doesn't function at all without him.

[ant london]

Imo, unless the manager makes an absolute arse of it, they have to be allowed to make mistakes & find their own solutions, which are often the opposite to what fans predict they should do. Even if it's frustrating for us to take, we just have to put up with it. I can do that provided I don't have to read people telling me it's tactical genius when it's actually all over the fucking shop!

I don't think I have ever agreed with a statement on here as much as I do that one

Well fucking put

[brite blu sky]

Disagree with a lot of what is written here, especially the generalisations about tactics made from yesterdays performance.

Ok everyone is pissed off, rightly, and it shows in the knee jerk analysis going off on one about this or that.

If you look at the game we were attacking well and had chances early on, but Wolves were also off the pace and couldn't get the ball. We got a pen and went one up and suddenly Wolves woke up to the fact they were staring at another defeat and the possibility of being bottom of the table. At that point they then started to both put the effort in afresh and string a few passes together. What they found or discovered was that we were not as organised defensively as they thought we were.. that just encouraged them.

Now you can argue all you like but in essence we missed deJong and the protection he provides. The requirement was for Yaya and Barry and Milner to between them do what deJong does.. now that is a tricky one as 2 or 3 players have to be thinking about it and on the case instead of just one specialist.

I think that given their quality they should have been able to do that job, but they were poor and couldn't and basically were found out. I saw that during the game before half time and suggested that albeit strange we should take Yaya off and put Zabba on to shore up the right hand side and generally get some better defensive attitude in there with Barry.

Once we lost the initiative and had been sussed we basically reverted to the way we played last season, with the midfield consistently losing touch with the attack and sitting back out of lack of confidence at dealing with the opposition. It was painful and more so as Mancini didn't appear to realise it or do anything about it.

Imo we can't rely on deJong or even a deJong mark 2 if he is out, we need to be able to do the job that is required with a slightly different formation, we need to learn that and Bobby needs to learn to do something when it isnt working.
If we cannot do without a deJong type role being played then we need to have someone on the pitch who can do an emergency cover. Mancini tried Boateng for a short while, but imo Kompany should be trained up to do that in case for instance deJong has to go off during a game - if not we could be ahead in important games and then fall apart if deJong got carded or injured.

The deJong thing is only one problem but it is key. Another is the midfield carriers not turning the play fast enough, we lose initiative so many times by checking and waiting. Yaya was the only one who at one point just carried the ball right through the midfield and laid it off. This is what imo Tevez is complaining about the lack of and it forces him to come deep to pick the ball up.


So put those two problems together, ( which you can summarise as missing Tevez and deJong ) and it shows up imo a severe incapacity as a team. Now in my view that has always been there, but the game yesterday showed in such a clear way where we are going wrong that it must be obvious to Mancini what they need to address, i fuclin hope so anyway because he wont get a clearer lesson in the deficiencies of the team. It isnt about those players missing.. although they show in their absence what needs sorting out. Barry, Yaya and Milner coundn't between the 3 of them organise themselves to share the responsibilities performed by deJong and eventually found themselves under pressure and lost it. I said before we signed him that while good Yaya would not slot into Prem style play as his training at Barca doesn't give him that, quiet the opposite. Judging by the way we got overwhelmed on the right i would now say that it will take more than this season for him to suss out and get up to speed what is required of him.. i hope that Mancini realises this because in certain games he will be a severe weak link.

[Crossie]

We needed Bellamy yesterday,

A real man, someone capable of sticking it right back up them and getting our boys going.

What the fuck is happening with the near kicking off on the pitch between Ade and Kompany, should be 2 of our best players, its fucking embarrassing to watch that kind of thing.

Not being a drama queen but if we lose the next couple of games, the wheels will totally fall off.

[Beefymcfc]

Disagree with a lot of what is written here, especially the generalisations about tactics made from yesterdays performance.

Ok everyone is pissed off, rightly, and it shows in the knee jerk analysis going off on one about this or that.

If you look at the game we were attacking well and had chances early on, but Wolves were also off the pace and couldn't get the ball. We got a pen and went one up and suddenly Wolves woke up to the fact they were staring at another defeat and the possibility of being bottom of the table. At that point they then started to both put the effort in afresh and string a few passes together. What they found or discovered was that we were not as organised defensively as they thought we were.. that just encouraged them.

Now you can argue all you like but in essence we missed deJong and the protection he provides. The requirement was for Yaya and Barry and Milner to between them do what deJong does.. now that is a tricky one as 2 or 3 players have to be thinking about it and on the case instead of just one specialist.

I think that given their quality they should have been able to do that job, but they were poor and couldn't and basically were found out. I saw that during the game before half time and suggested that albeit strange we should take Yaya off and put Zabba on to shore up the right hand side and generally get some better defensive attitude in there with Barry.

Once we lost the initiative and had been sussed we basically reverted to the way we played last season, with the midfield consistently losing touch with the attack and sitting back out of lack of confidence at dealing with the opposition. It was painful and more so as Mancini didn't appear to realise it or do anything about it.

Imo we can't rely on deJong or even a deJong mark 2 if he is out, we need to be able to do the job that is required with a slightly different formation, we need to learn that and Bobby needs to learn to do something when it isnt working.
If we cannot do without a deJong type role being played then we need to have someone on the pitch who can do an emergency cover. Mancini tried Boateng for a short while, but imo Kompany should be trained up to do that in case for instance deJong has to go off during a game - if not we could be ahead in important games and then fall apart if deJong got carded or injured.

The deJong thing is only one problem but it is key. Another is the midfield carriers not turning the play fast enough, we lose initiative so many times by checking and waiting. Yaya was the only one who at one point just carried the ball right through the midfield and laid it off. This is what imo Tevez is complaining about the lack of and it forces him to come deep to pick the ball up.


So put those two problems together, ( which you can summarise as missing Tevez and deJong ) and it shows up imo a severe incapacity as a team. Now in my view that has always been there, but the game yesterday showed in such a clear way where we are going wrong that it must be obvious to Mancini what they need to address, i fuclin hope so anyway because he wont get a clearer lesson in the deficiencies of the team. It isnt about those players missing.. although they show in their absence what needs sorting out. Barry, Yaya and Milner coundn't between the 3 of them organise themselves to share the responsibilities performed by deJong and eventually found themselves under pressure and lost it. I said before we signed him that while good Yaya would not slot into Prem style play as his training at Barca doesn't give him that, quiet the opposite. Judging by the way we got overwhelmed on the right i would now say that it will take more than this season for him to suss out and get up to speed what is required of him.. i hope that Mancini realises this because in certain games he will be a severe weak link.

It sounds like you're saying we haven't got a Plan B when one or more players are out? The problem for me to start was who he played in Nige's place and took on the responsibility. It is a specific role that cannot be dished out between players and I was thinking that it would be left to Milner to pick up the pieces, not someone like Yaya who isn't quick enough across the ground. Furthermore, why after the goal did we seem to lose all momentum? Yes, Wolves picked it up but only because we let them, and seemed to want to sit back and protect the lead. I don't think this was a group decision but a managerial one, a pre-planned tactic to try and nullify the oppo; i didn't work and was clear to see that it wasn't working.

Lastly, the changes were just horrendous in my book. Yaya and Mario had proved to be relatively useless throughout the game and yet they were allowed to finish on the pitch at full-time. Obviously they need to get games under their belts but when there's 3 points at stake you surely would look at changing 2 of your worsed players on the day. The Barry/AJ switch seemed OK (should've been Yaya of course) to give some impetus to the attack, but then to bring off Ade, who we know can score, for a defensive player was just mind-boggling. Then to hope Jo could come on and change the game with 5 mins to go was just absurd. This probably shows more of the mind-set of Mancini than anything else, ensuring the back line was tightened up before going for the goal to get us at least a point.

Needless to say I was disappointed with yesterday's game but I'm actually more disappointed with Mancini and his decisions. If we hadn't rode our luck and had some dubious decisions go are way in previous games we could've be in a very precarious position in the table. And the worrying thing for me is that apart from the odd game I don't think we've played that well.

Lucky we're fourth in the table though, and couple of easy games coming up?

[Im_Spartacus]

BBS, The comments most have made on the thread were not just about yesterday, they are about the setup in general, because you could apply them to most games we have played, including those we have won.

Are you essentially saying that we were toothless going forward because De Jong was not on the pitch? Because I am struggling to comprehend this. Whilst the defence will lose a little protection, there is zero link between De Jong not playing, wingers not being wingers, no fucker being able to make a simple pass then move into space, and as a result of all the previous, having a forward isolated.

Aside from individual moments of brilliance, the thread could be talking about defeats to Blackburn, Newcastle, Spuds, Sunderland, Blackpool etc etc, as the midfield has NEVER closed that gap to Tevez, not last season, not this season. The margin between winning and losing has been extremely blurred this year as far as I am concerned.

Fact is we can't rely the whole side's tactic on a moment of magic to pull us out of the shit. When you do, you get what you got yesterday, fuck all.

[walmai]

I read somewhere today that you haven't won a league match since January, unless Tevez has scored in it.

He's world class, no sweat, but, if that's true, its madness!

[BlueMoonAwoken]

I read somewhere today that you haven't won a league match since January, unless Tevez has scored in it.

He's world class, no sweat, but, if that's true, its madness!

That is a scary thought if its true mate!

And no wonder tevez is becoming pissed off with mancini as he keeps saving his bacon.

[Beefymcfc]

I read somewhere today that you haven't won a league match since January, unless Tevez has scored in it.

He's world class, no sweat, but, if that's true, its madness!

That is a scary thought if its true mate!

And no wonder tevez is becoming pissed off with mancini as he keeps saving his bacon.

It was on the Beeb's preview:

• The last league game the club won without the aid of a Tevez goal was a 2-0 victory against Portsmouth in January, when Emmanuel Adebayor and Vincent Kompany scored.

[brite blu sky]

BBS, The comments most have made on the thread were not just about yesterday, they are about the setup in general, because you could apply them to most games we have played, including those we have won.

Are you essentially saying that we were toothless going forward because De Jong was not on the pitch? Because I am struggling to comprehend this. Whilst the defence will lose a little protection, there is zero link between De Jong not playing, wingers not being wingers, no fucker being able to make a simple pass then move into space, and as a result of all the previous, having a forward isolated.

Aside from individual moments of brilliance, the thread could be talking about defeats to Blackburn, Newcastle, Spuds, Sunderland, Blackpool etc etc, as the midfield has NEVER closed that gap to Tevez, not last season, not this season. The margin between winning and losing has been extremely blurred this year as far as I am concerned.

Fact is we can't rely the whole side's tactic on a moment of magic to pull us out of the shit. When you do, you get what you got yesterday, fuck all.

I realise that a lot of comments were not just as a result of yesterday.. yet it takes a defeat for those comments to be made and then they get amplified. Not many people were making these points into arguments recently until a defeat. Ted has been saying some stuff and a few others about lack of a plan B. Beyond that a lot of generalisations have been made on the back of the performance yesterday, so i will stick by what im saying there.
I would say that we have looked pretty solid in a few games so it isnt always so precarious. Football is a touch and go thing at the best of times, the better teams forcing the luck if you like.

We are still in progress and probably still learning plan A.. so lose a couple of key players and we lose a lot more than we should. As for deJong's importance ( or a player doing what he does ), yes i do think that it effects everything. The role has an importance in the way we set up by.

1. Covering the defence - so allowing it to hold a higher position consistently during the game - adding confidence to the defence overall.
2. With the backline higher up, the gap between midfield and attack is reduced and we can play the short passing interplay we have seen.
3. We can hold that style of play with confidence as winning the ball back also happens high up the pitch, returning us to an attacking stance quickly and without losing ground and touch with the attack.

The loss of the above means the exact opposite, defence sinks back, midfield has more ground to cover, attack gets more isolated... long ball ensues as a cheap way to try and get out of the situation.. we lose the plot.

that is why i see either the loss of a deJong type figure or the inability to play another way without that role as effecting everything from front to back.

[bluej]

I read somewhere today that you haven't won a league match since January, unless Tevez has scored in it.

He's world class, no sweat, but, if that's true, its madness!

That is a scary thought if its true mate!

And no wonder tevez is becoming pissed off with mancini as he keeps saving his bacon.

It was on the Beeb's preview:

• The last league game the club won without the aid of a Tevez goal was a 2-0 victory against Portsmouth in January, when Emmanuel Adebayor and Vincent Kompany scored.

To be fair, how many games have we played without Tevez since then?

[walmai]

I read somewhere today that you haven't won a league match since January, unless Tevez has scored in it.

He's world class, no sweat, but, if that's true, its madness!

That is a scary thought if its true mate!

And no wonder tevez is becoming pissed off with mancini as he keeps saving his bacon.

It was on the Beeb's preview:

• The last league game the club won without the aid of a Tevez goal was a 2-0 victory against Portsmouth in January, when Emmanuel Adebayor and Vincent Kompany scored.

To be fair, how many games have we played without Tevez since then?

Its not the past tense I'd be worried about!