City's Hair Trigger and Cook's Trajectory

[Im_Spartacus]

Savage is on R5 now, and they have been talking about City a fair bit over last hour. The one thing Robbie was adamant about, was that Bobby was gone if he didn't achieve top 4. Robbie being good mates with Bobby would know a fair bit about the clubs expectations for Mancini, and I am becoming slightly uneasy that with a few more below par results and Cook's "trajectory" whether the hair trigger could be pressed again this side of xmas.

I hope not, as although I can't stand the style of play, I still think the team and Bobby have what it takes to do the job regardless of a few blips, and besides our rivals (Spuds/Everton/Liverpool) are hardly pulling up trees at this stage in what looks so far to potentially be even more competetive than last year when remove Chelsea from the equation.

[Crossie]

Problem is we all thought we played defensive last season, because we were shit defensively and had no midfield so we got passed through.

We were all hoping that with a boosted defence - fit CB's and new fullbacks - granted they havent really played yet, and the addition of a fucking awesome midfield line up, that the defence would be fine without 3 midfielders protecting it.

This season, its looked pretty much the same as last, only different players interpreting the same old tactics SLIGHTLY differently.

Its all there for us all to see, we can see the potential, the skill, the awesome football thats just waiting to be unleashed week in week out. But it just feels like the manager is holding us back.

Its like he was mentally scared at some point last season and doesnt want to make the same mistake. Almost like he still doesnt trust the defence.

Mancini needs to let go and believe in the club, the players and himself, and unleash the fury.

[ashton287]

Our rivals should be chelsea/the scum. Consoling ourselves with the fact everton and liverpool are shit aswell isnt a good thing. Were shit and we should be on 10 points not 5 injuries or not and it doesnt matter how early on in the season it is because we had an awesome start to last season and look how close that ended up.

But yeah hope they dont sack mancini because who the fuck would we get in?

[avoidconfusion]

If City sack the manager again after just one season then we will never achieve anything no matter how much money is being spent on players.

[Ted Hughes]

The correct thing would have been not to sack Hughes in the 1st place, see last season through to it's conclusion THEN decide on whether we needed a new manager. If we'd decided to sack Hughes at that point, Mancini would now be a new manager with a new team able to make the mistakes he currently is doing & have more breathing space without people being so critical.

[Im_Spartacus]

The correct thing would have been not to sack Hughes in the 1st place, see last season through to it's conclusion THEN decide on whether we needed a new manager. If we'd decided to sack Hughes at that point, Mancini would now be a new manager with a new team able to make the mistakes he currently is doing & have more breathing space without people being so critical.

Of course you are right, yet, it seems the club have made their bed on this issue now.

They sacked a manager who wasn't on the right "trajectory".

Given that last season, it wasn't totally imperative to qualify for the CL and yet Hughes still got sacked from a decent position in the PL, with a semi in the bag................none of this bodes well for Mancini another £150m down the line. I'm far from worried yet, but I am still concerned that he "doesnt get" english football, and that was so evident today.

Like I said I think we will manage top 4 under Mancini - what we manage beyond that though with this manager is potentially up for debate

[DoomMerchant]

The correct thing would have been not to sack Hughes in the 1st place, see last season through to it's conclusion THEN decide on whether we needed a new manager. If we'd decided to sack Hughes at that point, Mancini would now be a new manager with a new team able to make the mistakes he currently is doing & have more breathing space without people being so critical.

Of course you are right, yet, it seems the club have made their bed on this issue now.

They sacked a manager who wasn't on the right "trajectory".

Given that last season, it wasn't totally imperative to qualify for the CL and yet Hughes still got sacked from a decent position in the PL, with a semi in the bag................none of this bodes well for Mancini another £150m down the line. I'm far from worried yet, but I am still concerned that he "doesnt get" english football, and that was so evident today.

Like I said I think we will manage top 4 under Mancini - what we manage beyond that though with this manager is potentially up for debate

to be fair to Hughes and Cook tho, it wasn't just trajectory. I believe it was two things:

1) Hughes was never the Sheik's man, and Mancini is.
2) Hughes was going to war with Marwood and Cook over not having 100% complete control over footballing operations, and it was making the workplace like a stale airplane fart until Hughes sharted his pants at WHL. Then, everyone decided we needed new underpants immediately because of the craptastic combination of working relationships/attitude and results.

cheers

[john68]

I think you're right Doomie...particularly about the Hughes/Marwood issue.
I think you could also add to that, the quite viciferous anti Hughes campaign that made itself apparent on the forums and in the stadium.

I still believe that at some point, someone in the club, (probably Marwood as he seems to be in control of football policy) has got to show some patience and give a manager time, allowing this new team to gel and stabilise.

[ashton287]

We can't really afford to get rid of the manager anyway because the new money rules come in at th end of the season don't they?. So if we get a new manager in he wouldnt be able to build a team of his own and any chance of CL football would be fucked which in the long term would fuck us even harder until were just a bleeding scrotem waking up in a hotel room and spending the next week crying in the shower.

[Ted Hughes]

The dreadful thing about all this is that I can see the possibility of Mancini being sacked if his new signings don't gel quickly. When you bring in lots of new players, it can take a couple of seasons, they can be brilliant one minute & average the next. Same thing with Hughes' team. Both Mancini & Hughes are/were good enough to get us top 3 imo but instead of building on Hughes' team, Mancini is effectively dismantling it tactically so he's putting himself in the position Hughes was in last season (albeit with a stronger squad) where his job could be on the line if a few players make mistakes. Personally I hope they just leave him to it now, even if it goes tits up results wise. The ghost of Mourinho will start to loom as the season goes on though.

One proviso though; he HAS to attack teams like Blackburn at home otherwise he doesn't deserve all that money & backing.

[Im_Spartacus]

We can't really afford to get rid of the manager anyway because the new money rules come in at th end of the season don't they?. So if we get a new manager in he wouldnt be able to build a team of his own and any chance of CL football would be fucked which in the long term would fuck us even harder until were just a bleeding scrotem waking up in a hotel room and spending the next week crying in the shower.

The last chance to spend under the "old rules" will be January, or to get deals done before the start of June I believe. Aside from that though, I don't for one minute think that a new manager would be given any money as we have a squad which is easily capable of living with the best.

I think it would be absolute suicide to give Mancini the push regardless where we are come xmas, but seeing as the FFP rules will count for next year's income, and if next year's income doesn't include £20m+ champions league money then the cost of sacking the manager mid-season will pale into insignificance.

We just have to hope that this situation doesn't arrive, and I feel we will be comfortably up there come December regardless of a handful of shitty results.

[Renato_CTID]

If City sack the manager again after just one season then we will never achieve anything no matter how much money is being spent on players.

Totally agree with you even if I'm still dazed and confused about Bobbie and his strange tactics!

[Ted Hughes]

We can't really afford to get rid of the manager anyway because the new money rules come in at th end of the season don't they?. So if we get a new manager in he wouldnt be able to build a team of his own and any chance of CL football would be fucked which in the long term would fuck us even harder until were just a bleeding scrotem waking up in a hotel room and spending the next week crying in the shower.

The last chance to spend under the "old rules" will be January, or to get deals done before the start of June I believe. Aside from that though, I don't for one minute think that a new manager would be given any money as we have a squad which is easily capable of living with the best.

I think it would be absolute suicide to give Mancini the push regardless where we are come xmas, but seeing as the FFP rules will count for next year's income, and if next year's income doesn't include £20m+ champions league money then the cost of sacking the manager mid-season will pale into insignificance.

We just have to hope that this situation doesn't arrive, and I feel we will be comfortably up there come December regardless of a handful of shitty results.

His future may be decided in the next few weeks.

16 September 2010 18:00 A Red Bull Salzburg Europa League
19 September 2010 15:00 A Wigan Athletic Barclays Premier League
22 September 2010 20:00 A West Bromwich Albion Carling Cup
25 September 2010 12:45 H Chelsea Barclays Premier League
30 September 2010 20:05 H Juventus Europa League
03 October 2010 13:30 H Newcastle United Barclays Premier League
17 October 2010 16:00 A Blackpool Barclays Premier League
21 October 2010 20:05 H Lech Poznan Europa League
24 October 2010 16:00 H Arsenal Barclays Premier League
30 October 2010 15:00 A Wolverhampton Wanderers Barclays Premier League

He can get away with bad results in the big games v Chelsea & Arsenal if he does well in the small ones but if we fuck up v the Wigans WBAs & Blackpools etc he'll lose the confidence of the fans & probably the owner. He really needs to treat that WBA game, in particular, with respect & not fuck about. Even winning the big games won't be enough if we lose to the small teams, Hughes beat them both last season & was fired a week or two later.

[brite blu sky]

It is easy to see where all this worry is coming from.. results not good enough.

Early days yet.. the potential is there, we are playing some good football, we are dominating teams, we are not sharp enough yet for sure. Two bad results from two of the worst mistakes you are likely to see from two of our best players. Carlito and Joe.

When we are sharp enough we will be able to ride those kind of mistakes. have faith.

[Bluez]

I would be very surprised if Mancini was fired before the final league places are known. If we do not finish the season in top 4 I do think they will think very hard about it. This could be more interesting as the boring football Mourinho plays is likely to get him fired by Madrid next summer.

So far its been a couple of games and the system hasn't specifically let it down it has been 3 unbelieveable individual errors. If Hart had stayed in goal and let Toure clear for a throwin we would have won yesterday, thats nothiing to do with system. Against Sunderland Tevez miss and Richards clumsyness was nothing to do with system.

At the moment its like being back in the old Thrid division, we are a scalp so everyone will raise their game. We will see some of teh best defensive displays against us as teams are determined to put one over us. Given time this will calm down and teh incentive will go, but that means it will be a good second half and a tough first half of teh season.

[frannylee]

Putting things into a business perspective, from my own job I know that in any business year, Quarter 1 is the most important. If we do not achieve our revenue figures in Q1, then it is highly unlikley we will achieve our Q2, 3 or 4 revenue figures.

Given that the Premiership Season is more easily split into 3 quarters (if that makes sense), then Q1 will be approx 3.5 months long, running from August to mid November

Given previous posts on this thread regarding timelines / expectations etc, I would agree with Ted that next 6 weeks are critical to RM in terms of his tenure at Eastlands

Whilst I would not want us to change Manager until at least the end of the Season (and to keep a Manager for four or five seasons would be even better), the guys putting the money in will be looking for a return on their investment. The return they are seeking is Champions League football next season and probably some silverware.

If by mid - November we are not sitting securely somewhere in the top 6 or 8 and / or if we have been dumped out of a couple of the domestic / European competitions, then my fear is that RM gets the chop.

Having said that, think the owners will also realise that if they do fire him mis-season, chances of getting a decent replacement are almost zero - better the devil you know may be their thought process

Putting my neck on the block here, I think if we do not get a Champions League place for next Season PLUS at least one piece of silverware, RM will go at the end of the season (but he will not go mid-season irrespective of results)

[the_georgian_genius]

I'm a huge fan of Mancini and an even bigger fan of stability as sacking managers after a year will get no one anywhere but even i will change my mind on Mancini if he cannot get us in the Champions League with this squad, his squad! His abilities as a manager and his abilities in his players should mean at least a top four finish.

For all the money we have spent since September 2008. Champions League football next year is a MUST.

[ant london]

I was reasonably sure that Hughes could have got us there in the end....either last season or this but I am more convinced that Mancini actually has what it takes for the next level the more I now see.

We were unlucky against both Sunderland and Blackburn and we could very easily be sitting on 10 points if a couple of shit incidents hadn't gone against us. That is the case even with a depleted squad and one which has really not had any where like enough time to get to know itself.

I think this next month will show a more realistic snapshot of where we are at and I really don't think we are far off.

Honestly, the last two results were frustrating but I am not remotely worried

[brite blu sky]

I was reasonably sure that Hughes could have got us there in the end....either last season or this but I am more convinced that Mancini actually has what it takes for the next level the more I now see.

We were unlucky against both Sunderland and Blackburn and we could very easily be sitting on 10 points if a couple of shit incidents hadn't gone against us. That is the case even with a depleted squad and one which has really not had any where like enough time to get to know itself.

I think this next month will show a more realistic snapshot of where we are at and I really don't think we are far off.

Honestly, the last two results were frustrating but I am not remotely worried

I basically agree with this.. however i also take the view that even though we were unlucky we should still not have been in the situations we found ourselves in. Good teams can always have a bad day.. but if it starts to be a trend then there are problems. So in that sense it is worrying that the team out on Sat were not able to take BB apart. Yes it is early days, yes we are missing good players, yes we haven't had enough time playing together.. these are all valid excuses, but excuses they remain. That set of players should have beaten BB and by the end of the game should have been throwing the kitchen sink at them as if it was a Cup Final. We have yet to learn this and we have yet to see some real leaders emerging.

So two bad days at the office.. ok thats unfortunate but acceptable in the scheme of things, if it continues though we are looking like we have a problem. i hope the players are taking this as their crisis moment, because they need to.