The reason why we are struggling to score

[Im_Spartacus]

I meant to say that, with the inability to predict what would have happened being the case, we can only work on the remaining performance.


Personally I don't think our overall performance was good enough today.

I suppose all I am saying is that the players picked did well, the manager didn't

[DoomMerchant]

It should have been irrelevant whether swp played in midweek for england, this is city! The manager and the players need to stop worrying about what they're doing for England and start concentrating on what they are doing for the club that pays they're wages.
Johnson was good today but probably could have found a cross when Tevez was free in the box in the first half and the manager needs to pick players who'll perform not who's getting 15 minutes for England.
Get Silva in the team!

I will qualify my statement above by saying again that had it not been for the silly mistake, we would have won by a few goals and thats ultimately not Mancini's fault

John,

You can't say retrospectively that "this would've happened if that would've happened". We could've lost 10-0 if Hart didn't fuck up. It's impossible to certainly say what would've happened.

I totally agree with what MRM is saying and though I really appreciate his well thought out argument saying "we are playing the wrong formation with the current players" is a bit rudimentary. Yes at least one of Lescott & Richards is a centre back but byu the same token if we had full backs able to cross today there would've been no one in the box.

also, if Hart didn't have such a big swinging johnson with which to block that shot in the 2nd half we'd have lost. Think about that one! Saved by penis. Rare.

cheers

p.s. agree with MRM original thoughts on the fullbacks not overlapping. it's pretty obvious that Mancini wants to employ his system, which i think would work fantastically if he didn't have his two first choice fullbacks injured. His inability to realize that neither Lescott -- who's done well tbh -- nor Richards -- who's actually done way better than i felt he might -- aren't able to play in that system and create the width we need is surprising. Although, this is also the man who was willing to shuttle off Craig Bellamy to prove to the team and us that he's in control.

Mancini's "my way or the highway" tactics will lead to results, or not. And that's what we will live and die by. I've said for a long time that his system depends, as does Mourinho's for example, on taking the few chances you get and burying one to open up a team like Rovers were today -- parked, and unwilling to go for anything.

All in all, there were some bright spots about today. I'm not giving up on Mancini or his approach, but just think he can "take what's on offer" more instead of being such a hardheaded Italiano. In his defense, he's had little time to work with these players with the WC and INTL footy. We won't see how this really shakes out for 6 more weeks. By then this forum will be on self-destruct. It will be a little bit like this on here:

[youtube]ukeHdiszZmE[/youtube]

[LookMumImOnMCF.net]

I personally don't think Mancini has 'figured' what it takes to easily win these types of games.

Cheers

[DoomMerchant]

I personally don't think Mancini has 'figured' what it takes to easily win these types of games.

Cheers

because he won't surrender to the team he has and what they could do instead of what he thinks they should do. Classic stuff. People do that in the workplace every day of the year. No surprise a millionaire footy manager has the same challenges.

cheers yourself big fella

[LookMumImOnMCF.net]

i'm not quite sure what it is, my american friend, but i'm not sure he's got it.

and i do fear a man do set in his ways just might not get it

[john68]

MRM,
The point you make about the full backs not moving forward and filling the wide space upfield that is left by the wingers moving inside was noted on Radio Manchester.
Douglas has also previously made the point (several times) that whilst Mancini seems to be quite happy to change stuff around if his initial gameplan isn't working, the very fact that this seems to happen so often surely means that he is regularly getting it wrong in the 1st place.

In the short term, this could severely damamge any attack on the title that we be trying to mount. We are already too many points behind Chelsea for it to be comfortable. Chelsea don't drop that many points.
In the longer term, Mancini's insistance of this strategy being played at all costs may work in our favour. As players return to full fitness, new players are assimilated into the team and teamwork and understanding improve, we may find that mancicni's persistance with this system may help it become more instinctive and allow for us to play in a more fluid way.

It's still very early doors and we still have both time and hope on our side.

[Ted Hughes]

It should have been irrelevant whether swp played in midweek for england, this is city! The manager and the players need to stop worrying about what they're doing for England and start concentrating on what they are doing for the club that pays they're wages.
Johnson was good today but probably could have found a cross when Tevez was free in the box in the first half and the manager needs to pick players who'll perform not who's getting 15 minutes for England.
Get Silva in the team!

I will qualify my statement above by saying again that had it not been for the silly mistake, we would have won by a few goals and thats ultimately not Mancini's fault

John,

You can't say retrospectively that "this would've happened if that would've happened". We could've lost 10-0 if Hart didn't fuck up. It's impossible to certainly say what would've happened.

I totally agree with what MRM is saying and though I really appreciate his well thought out argument saying "we are playing the wrong formation with the current players" is a bit rudimentary. Yes at least one of Lescott & Richards is a centre back but byu the same token if we had full backs able to cross today there would've been no one in the box.

also, if Hart didn't have such a big swinging johnson with which to block that shot in the 2nd half we'd have lost. Think about that one! Saved by penis. Rare.

cheers

p.s. agree with MRM original thoughts on the fullbacks not overlapping. it's pretty obvious that Mancini wants to employ his system, which i think would work fantastically if he didn't have his two first choice fullbacks injured. His inability to realize that neither Lescott -- who's done well tbh -- nor Richards -- who's actually done way better than i felt he might -- aren't able to play in that system and create the width we need is surprising. Although, this is also the man who was willing to shuttle off Craig Bellamy to prove to the team and us that he's in control.

Mancini's "my way or the highway" tactics will lead to results, or not. And that's what we will live and die by. I've said for a long time that his system depends, as does Mourinho's for example, on taking the few chances you get and burying one to open up a team like Rovers were today -- parked, and unwilling to go for anything.

All in all, there were some bright spots about today. I'm not giving up on Mancini or his approach, but just think he can "take what's on offer" more instead of being such a hardheaded Italiano. In his defense, he's had little time to work with these players with the WC and INTL footy. We won't see how this really shakes out for 6 more weeks. By then this forum will be on self-destruct. It will be a little bit like this on here:

[youtube]ukeHdiszZmE[/youtube]

The eventual team that Mancini COULD build can be awesome. The problems of being the worst team in the Premier league at crossing & scoring from wide could eventually be solved by Kolarov & Boateng. Adebayor may be the centre forwrd we are lacking & Balotelli could get 20 goals playing in Bellamy's position. David Silva may become our Fabregas when he learns the pace.

By that time our season may be over & Mancinbi may be watching someone else win trophies next season. He's setting himself up for Ranieris fate by doing the same things Ranieri did. Expecting players who barely know each other to just swap & change positions & formations immediately is just fucking nonsense imo. John's saying it was the same team as Liverpool; was it fuck! It SHOULD have been, that's the point, it's too early to fuck about. Only DeJong needed to be changed. Instead we had 2 player changes & 2 positional changes. Milner played centrally to form a totally untried 3 with headless left & Johnson right, Yaya dropped back to join Vieira in an untried 2 man holding midfield that failed to support attacks. FFS why? Why not just replace DeJong?

If we were going to change formation v Blackburn at home in any case, why not change to an attacking one with a striker? Why were we so scared of Blackburn?

[john@staustell]

One of Tevez' shots goes in, then we get a penalty and it's a comfortable 3-1 win and eveeryone's happy. It's not creating the chances against BB that would be a problem.

However, Jo coming on ahead of RSC is a problem of Bobby's own making.

[Ted Hughes]

One of Tevez' shots goes in, then we get a penalty and it's a comfortable 3-1 win and eveeryone's happy. It's not creating the chances against BB that would be a problem.

However, Jo coming on ahead of RSC is a problem of Bobby's own making.

Every single game that Hughes' team drew or lost in that bad spell had exactly the same criteria. We were the best team in almost all of them, even on a bad day, & played at least some great football in every game. We missed chances & defenders made mistakes though. The fact that we were a side with new players trying to gel together, then also ravaged by injuries to the defence, didn't stop fans from slaughtering him or the chairman from sacking him.

[Dubaimancityfan]

It should have been irrelevant whether swp played in midweek for england, this is city! The manager and the players need to stop worrying about what they're doing for England and start concentrating on what they are doing for the club that pays they're wages.
Johnson was good today but probably could have found a cross when Tevez was free in the box in the first half and the manager needs to pick players who'll perform not who's getting 15 minutes for England.
Get Silva in the team!

I will qualify my statement above by saying again that had it not been for the silly mistake, we would have won by a few goals and thats ultimately not Mancini's fault

John,

You can't say retrospectively that "this would've happened if that would've happened". We could've lost 10-0 if Hart didn't fuck up. It's impossible to certainly say what would've happened.

I totally agree with what MRM is saying and though I really appreciate his well thought out argument saying "we are playing the wrong formation with the current players" is a bit rudimentary. Yes at least one of Lescott & Richards is a centre back but byu the same token if we had full backs able to cross today there would've been no one in the box.

Realistically, aside from the mistake we could have worn them down and won comfortably - but yes, as you say, we could still have lost 10-0. The odds would suggest we would have won had it not been for a mistake, as with last week. Which is why I am not too despondent, because these things happen - I just hope they don't become regular "things"

The team "he put out" today played well - that is not to say it was the right team - they did their best, but I as with many feel we could have done better with a different style.

I agree with John, 2 mistakes in 2 matches cost us 5 points. However these kind of mistakes don't happen very often and are an exception to the rule.
What encouraged me yesterday is that we did create chances and had many shots on goal (AJ, SWP, Barry, Jo and Tevez) which could have resulted in goals were it not for exceptional defending by Samba and top goal keeping performance by Robinson. We also had a very good shout for a penalty which was harshly not given. So things could have turned out much different if we had had a bit of luck.
Having said that, I also agree with many posts here that Mancinic played with the wrong formation. There is no excuse to play without a recognised striker in front of Tevez especially at home against weaker teams.
I saw Tevez playing for Argentina against Spain as a 2nd striker and he was exeptional and had a hand in 3 goals (one which he scored). That's the role that he likes and that's where Manc should play him.
Jo and RSC might not be top strikers but they do know how to position themselves in the right place and can score goals if they are given the right service. And with the quality of the wingers that we have now, plus Tevez, Barry and Yaya, there is no reason why they should not get that kind of service.
Of course when Ade and Mario are fit an can play, then we have 2 top strikers who can play in front of Tevez.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

"2 mistakes in 2 matches cost us 5 points"

These mistakes don't happen very often. Hmmm.That's what the last manager thought but sadly they did and were shared around the team as well. And as for exceptional defending etc etc I think we need to assume that will happen.Defenders are paid to defend and if, after we fail, we excuse it because they defended well we night as well give up.

Plenty of time though to put it right but I don't think it will happen ( consistently enough) by having the same approach to a game irrespective of who we play against , whether we are at home or away or what players we have available.

[brite blu sky]

In ref to MRM's OP i agree that the system req the fullbacks. Yesterday they were struggling to get into the game, but at Sunderland they were both doing ok.. so for me that debunks the idea that they are not good enough.

Again we suffered a total fluke, shit happens, but even so we had plenty of chances, some of them good ones and should have stuck them away and should have well beaten them. Im not saying there isn't a problem but im not saying it is perhaps anything more than still getting it together. Tevez was a lot sharper and will be even more so in a couple of matches more. There was some good football on offer from City in that game but im not sure it is so easy to pinpoint what was missing apart from not getting it the net.

I thought Mancini set us up well enough, no deJong who was injured anyway, but who would have been surplus to req anyway. The only thing i was surprised about was PV instead of Barry, and for me that played out as we struggled to play it out from our own half with any speed and let blackburn get behind the ball. That together with the fullbacks not getting forward left us poncing about too often in front of the BB defence. So basically i am thinking that the lack of pace of PV had an effect on the team. 1. not getting out with speed and 2. wary of getting caught out.

As PV made and got the only goal it makes this a difficult argument to make, but i think the only mistake Bobby made was not playing with Barry from the start. We would have had faster interplay through the middle and cover for Lescott if and when he went forward. I also think that Yaya was also hindered by PV's lack of movement. As i say i think it was in that area that we lost the initiative time and again, let BB get organised and ended up having to take pot shots.

On a positive note it is unlikely we will put out such a 'weak' team again. Also AJ is a joy to watch and all being well is going to be some player, was great to see him chasing it and getting stuck in when he lost out.

[brite blu sky]

Just watched the highlights, how we failed to get more goals i dont know, just a lack of sharpness and a bit of communication in the area. It will come and someone will get tonked.

[Dubaimancityfan]

"2 mistakes in 2 matches cost us 5 points"

These mistakes don't happen very often. Hmmm.That's what the last manager thought but sadly they did and were shared around the team as well. And as for exceptional defending etc etc I think we need to assume that will happen.Defenders are paid to defend and if, after we fail, we excuse it because they defended well we night as well give up.

Plenty of time though to put it right but I don't think it will happen ( consistently enough) by having the same approach to a game irrespective of who we play against , whether we are at home or away or what players we have available.

Doug
How many times will we see Carlos miss an open goal like he did at Sunderland ? And how many times will we see an absurd mix-up between Hart and a defender as happended yesterday ? That's what I meant by exceptional.
Normal defending/goalkeeping mistakes will happen of course and Carlos will miss other goalscoring chance but none will be similar and as costly as the one at Sunderland.
Cheers

[Ted Hughes]

"2 mistakes in 2 matches cost us 5 points"

These mistakes don't happen very often. Hmmm.That's what the last manager thought but sadly they did and were shared around the team as well. And as for exceptional defending etc etc I think we need to assume that will happen.Defenders are paid to defend and if, after we fail, we excuse it because they defended well we night as well give up.

Plenty of time though to put it right but I don't think it will happen ( consistently enough) by having the same approach to a game irrespective of who we play against , whether we are at home or away or what players we have available.

Doug
How many times will we see Carlos miss an open goal like he did at Sunderland ? And how many times will we see an absurd mix-up between Hart and a defender as happended yesterday ? That's what I meant by exceptional.
Normal defending/goalkeeping mistakes will happen of course and Carlos will miss other goalscoring chance but none will be similar and as costly as the one at Sunderland.
Cheers

Hopefully not at all but as Doug said; that's exactly what did happen, week after week after week during our drawing spell last season. Individual mistakes, missed chances, bad reffing. Who got the blame? The manager. It was his fault when Wayne Bridge miscontrolled a ball or Toure fell over or a ref awarded a dodgy pen because a better manager would already have us 5-0 up (& get the best out of Robinho ;-) Realistically; shit happens & it happens more when teams are in a 1st season with a significant No of new players. The trick is not to sack the manager because of it unless it genuinely is his fault.

[Dubaimancityfan]

"2 mistakes in 2 matches cost us 5 points"

These mistakes don't happen very often. Hmmm.That's what the last manager thought but sadly they did and were shared around the team as well. And as for exceptional defending etc etc I think we need to assume that will happen.Defenders are paid to defend and if, after we fail, we excuse it because they defended well we night as well give up.

Plenty of time though to put it right but I don't think it will happen ( consistently enough) by having the same approach to a game irrespective of who we play against , whether we are at home or away or what players we have available.

Doug
How many times will we see Carlos miss an open goal like he did at Sunderland ? And how many times will we see an absurd mix-up between Hart and a defender as happended yesterday ? That's what I meant by exceptional.
Normal defending/goalkeeping mistakes will happen of course and Carlos will miss other goalscoring chance but none will be similar and as costly as the one at Sunderland.
Cheers

Hopefully not at all but as Doug said; that's exactly what did happen, week after week after week during our drawing spell last season. Individual mistakes, missed chances, bad reffing. Who got the blame? The manager. It was his fault when Wayne Bridge miscontrolled a ball or Toure fell over or a ref awarded a dodgy pen because a better manager would already have us 5-0 up (& get the best out of Robinho ;-) Realistically; shit happens & it happens more when teams are in a 1st season with a significant No of new players. The trick is not to sack the manager because of it unless it genuinely is his fault.

I agree Ted, shit happens. But what happened in the last 2 matches was exceptional shit which we will (hopefully) not see repeated again. That was my point.
As for keeping Mancini, I'm all for it. Although I did not like his formation yesterday, its too early to make any jugment as he needs time to find the right one and needs all his players fit and then its another story.

[mcfctm]

One of Tevez' shots goes in, then we get a penalty and it's a comfortable 3-1 win and eveeryone's happy. It's not creating the chances against BB that would be a problem.

However, Jo coming on ahead of RSC is a problem of Bobby's own making.

Every single game that Hughes' team drew or lost in that bad spell had exactly the same criteria. We were the best team in almost all of them, even on a bad day, & played at least some great football in every game. We missed chances & defenders made mistakes though. The fact that we were a side with new players trying to gel together, then also ravaged by injuries to the defence, didn't stop fans from slaughtering him or the chairman from sacking him.

Tbf it's a little different. If you look at the games that we drew in that run of draws we were pretty much winning in all of them and then just sat back thinking it'd be a doddle. Fulham 2-0 up hull 1-0 up, Burnley 3-2 up etc whereas yesterday we were playing a side who went 1-0 up and it was us chasing the game.
I think we had enough chances to win the game but for some poor finishing and some good defending we didn't. 2 weeks time against chelsea should see the return of boateng and maybe Bridge so the we'll have more suited fullbacks to this system.
Was Roque on the bench yesterday? Thought he was injured.

[Dubaimancityfan]

One of Tevez' shots goes in, then we get a penalty and it's a comfortable 3-1 win and eveeryone's happy. It's not creating the chances against BB that would be a problem.

However, Jo coming on ahead of RSC is a problem of Bobby's own making.

Every single game that Hughes' team drew or lost in that bad spell had exactly the same criteria. We were the best team in almost all of them, even on a bad day, & played at least some great football in every game. We missed chances & defenders made mistakes though. The fact that we were a side with new players trying to gel together, then also ravaged by injuries to the defence, didn't stop fans from slaughtering him or the chairman from sacking him.

Tbf it's a little different. If you look at the games that we drew in that run of draws we were pretty much winning in all of them and then just sat back thinking it'd be a doddle. Fulham 2-0 up hull 1-0 up, Burnley 3-2 up etc whereas yesterday we were playing a side who went 1-0 up and it was us chasing the game.
I think we had enough chances to win the game but for some poor finishing and some good defending we didn't. 2 weeks time against chelsea should see the return of boateng and maybe Bridge so the we'll have more suited fullbacks to this system.
Was Roque on the bench yesterday? Thought he was injured.

RSC was on the bench and I thought he'd be given a chance. Anyway, I thought Jo did well and had 2 good chances to score saved and blocked. I think Jo or RSC should have been put on at the start of the 2nd H.

[Ted Hughes]

"2 mistakes in 2 matches cost us 5 points"

These mistakes don't happen very often. Hmmm.That's what the last manager thought but sadly they did and were shared around the team as well. And as for exceptional defending etc etc I think we need to assume that will happen.Defenders are paid to defend and if, after we fail, we excuse it because they defended well we night as well give up.

Plenty of time though to put it right but I don't think it will happen ( consistently enough) by having the same approach to a game irrespective of who we play against , whether we are at home or away or what players we have available.

Doug
How many times will we see Carlos miss an open goal like he did at Sunderland ? And how many times will we see an absurd mix-up between Hart and a defender as happended yesterday ? That's what I meant by exceptional.
Normal defending/goalkeeping mistakes will happen of course and Carlos will miss other goalscoring chance but none will be similar and as costly as the one at Sunderland.
Cheers

Hopefully not at all but as Doug said; that's exactly what did happen, week after week after week during our drawing spell last season. Individual mistakes, missed chances, bad reffing. Who got the blame? The manager. It was his fault when Wayne Bridge miscontrolled a ball or Toure fell over or a ref awarded a dodgy pen because a better manager would already have us 5-0 up (& get the best out of Robinho ;-) Realistically; shit happens & it happens more when teams are in a 1st season with a significant No of new players. The trick is not to sack the manager because of it unless it genuinely is his fault.

I agree Ted, shit happens. But what happened in the last 2 matches was exceptional shit which we will (hopefully) not see repeated again. That was my point.
As for keeping Mancini, I'm all for it. Although I did not like his formation yesterday, its too early to make any jugment as he needs time to find the right one and needs all his players fit and then its another story.

I don't like a lot of the things Mancini does & I think he's made some right fucking horrendous decisions but I think, when all his players are fit, he'll build a top side if we leave him to it & I think, hope, eventually it will be an attacking one.

[mcfctm]

One of Tevez' shots goes in, then we get a penalty and it's a comfortable 3-1 win and eveeryone's happy. It's not creating the chances against BB that would be a problem.

However, Jo coming on ahead of RSC is a problem of Bobby's own making.

Every single game that Hughes' team drew or lost in that bad spell had exactly the same criteria. We were the best team in almost all of them, even on a bad day, & played at least some great football in every game. We missed chances & defenders made mistakes though. The fact that we were a side with new players trying to gel together, then also ravaged by injuries to the defence, didn't stop fans from slaughtering him or the chairman from sacking him.

Tbf it's a little different. If you look at the games that we drew in that run of draws we were pretty much winning in all of them and then just sat back thinking it'd be a doddle. Fulham 2-0 up hull 1-0 up, Burnley 3-2 up etc whereas yesterday we were playing a side who went 1-0 up and it was us chasing the game.
I think we had enough chances to win the game but for some poor finishing and some good defending we didn't. 2 weeks time against chelsea should see the return of boateng and maybe Bridge so the we'll have more suited fullbacks to this system.
Was Roque on the bench yesterday? Thought he was injured.

RSC was on the bench and I thought he'd be given a chance. Anyway, I thought Jo did well and had 2 good chances to score saved and blocked. I think Jo or RSC should have been put on at the start of the 2nd H.

Ah ok didn't hear the bench being read out. Playing with wingers like milner and johnson surely he would have been a good option then cos he would thrive on the crosses they get in to the box