Could we play a 442 formation?

[Pretty Boy Lee]

Chelsea sometimes now play a midfield 'diamond' when they use 2 strikers so you could sort of call it 4-4-2 but I don't. Mourinho often played 4-3-3 especially when Robben was available but I would describe Ancelotti's system as 4-1-2-1-2 when Anelka & Drogba play & they user also various 4-3-3 type formations. Although I haven't particularly studied them this season, I wouldn't say we see 4-4-2 that often with Chelsea.

To me a diamond is still 442.

In fact I'd say it's a mode modern 442 as it allows the very in vogue "dm" to be played. It's also my formation of choice for my under 11's so it must be good.

[Ted Hughes]

4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 means at least 3 players getting forwards. Why would we therefore want to go with just 2 against poorer teams and surrender midfield as well?

Apart from Spurs, no top team plays 4-4-2. I suspect there's a reason for that

Rags still use it often when attacking & often don't have a defensive midfielder either. The main reason it fails is imo down to lack of quality genuine defenders that don't need so much help, midfield players who can do all jobs rather than just one, wingers who can attack & defend & produce quality & tough strikers who can either hold or attack the ball. If we met a team playing 4-4-2 that had Colin Bell & R** Ke**e in midfield with people like Mike Doyle & Tony Book behind them, Summerbee & Coppell on the wings with Shearer & Ferdinand up front, it would fuck us up badly & shove our 4-5-1 up our arses. We'd have no defense against it. Luckily we only have to deal with Spurs, which is still a struggle for us at the moment but we're getting there.

I'd largely agree with this. Proper defenders. Midfield players doing the full range of defending and attacking and wingers that take players on, beat them, going to the line and crossing, rather than all this cutting back inside bollox.

Crossing to who? Nial Quinn doesn't play for us anymore. How many times does AJ have to cut in and play a killer pass/score/create havoc and win a penalty before the penny finally drops with people?

Quite a lot if we're going to win the league tbh. A single PL goal away from home this season or even creating one single chance from that position, would be a start. I'm not saying it's a tactic that doesn't work, it may do SOME of the time but it failed totally v Sunderland & it's certainly not a tactic that should be used at the expense of all others. We should & will vary it. Imo that tactic will depend on Kolarov & Boateng providing the width overlapping. If that works we'll create stuff, if it doesn't we could drop points & miss out through not creating enough so will have to change.

[Ted Hughes]

It's all about flexibility and fluidity.England played a 4.4.2 in theory last friday but in reality it was more a 4.4.1.1 with Shrek dropping deep. You could argue that it was actually a 4.2.3.1 with the 2 wide players joining Shrek behind Defoe and Gerrard and Barry sitting a little in midfield to dictate the play. The wide players with Shrek and the two full backs are given a lot of licence to get forward so you potentially have a veryattacking line up. But if the manager so decides it can also be a cautioary line up if the manager puts the reins on players getting forward.

I think it's quite funny when systems are referred to all the time but most of what I see is not that regimented.I don't think Tevez will ever be an orthadox part of a 4.4.2 as he likes to come so deep looking for the ball but that's fine when others can run past him to make it so difficult for defenders to know what to do. All of it though depends on quality of players and their understanding of what's going on.

If Balotelli plays at the same time as Tevez (which he surely will) he won't be as keen to get back behind the ball as Milner, so the system must change to some extent as soon as he plays.

[Bingo Lewis]

Yes. Yes we could

-----------------Hart

Boateng--Toure---Kompo--Kola

Silva----Toure-----Bazza--Jonno

----------Ade------Tevez

Would be a top team and would get results. But Mancini's current setup is better and will get more results IMO.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 means at least 3 players getting forwards. Why would we therefore want to go with just 2 against poorer teams and surrender midfield as well?

Apart from Spurs, no top team plays 4-4-2. I suspect there's a reason for that

Rags still use it often when attacking & often don't have a defensive midfielder either. The main reason it fails is imo down to lack of quality genuine defenders that don't need so much help, midfield players who can do all jobs rather than just one, wingers who can attack & defend & produce quality & tough strikers who can either hold or attack the ball. If we met a team playing 4-4-2 that had Colin Bell & R** Ke**e in midfield with people like Mike Doyle & Tony Book behind them, Summerbee & Coppell on the wings with Shearer & Ferdinand up front, it would fuck us up badly & shove our 4-5-1 up our arses. We'd have no defense against it. Luckily we only have to deal with Spurs, which is still a struggle for us at the moment but we're getting there.

I'd largely agree with this. Proper defenders. Midfield players doing the full range of defending and attacking and wingers that take players on, beat them, going to the line and crossing, rather than all this cutting back inside bollox.

Crossing to who? Nial Quinn doesn't play for us anymore. How many times does AJ have to cut in and play a killer pass/score/create havoc and win a penalty before the penny finally drops with people?

When players get to the line to cross the ball, a host of opportunities and possibilities open up. It doesn't necessarily have to be played in for a tall striker. Cut back to players arriving late, hard and low across the six yard box, or the option of a higher ball to Ade or the like (who has scored with his head I think you'll find) are all in the frame. It is as has been pointed out about variation. Sure, swap wings for a different approach at some point, but it always seems to limit the options when a winger is having to cut back inside. Plus the angle of delivery seems to require a more pinpoint accurate cross when coming from the cut inside option.

[brite blu sky]

When players get to the line to cross the ball, a host of opportunities and possibilities open up. It doesn't necessarily have to be played in for a tall striker. Cut back to players arriving late, hard and low across the six yard box, or the option of a higher ball to Ade or the like (who has scored with his head I think you'll find) are all in the frame. It is as has been pointed out about variation. Sure, swap wings for a different approach at some point, but it always seems to limit the options when a winger is having to cut back inside. Plus the angle of delivery seems to require a more pinpoint accurate cross when coming from the cut inside option.

While i agree with all that, it should be pointed out that although not many times in a game, Silva, Yaya, AJ, Kolarov, Lescott, Micah and i think even Ade have all got to the byline and attempted to put it in the box.. sometimes successfully. So point is even without the formal 4-4-2 it can still happen and we are trying to do that.

Just thought id point that out.

[Ted Hughes]

When players get to the line to cross the ball, a host of opportunities and possibilities open up. It doesn't necessarily have to be played in for a tall striker. Cut back to players arriving late, hard and low across the six yard box, or the option of a higher ball to Ade or the like (who has scored with his head I think you'll find) are all in the frame. It is as has been pointed out about variation. Sure, swap wings for a different approach at some point, but it always seems to limit the options when a winger is having to cut back inside. Plus the angle of delivery seems to require a more pinpoint accurate cross when coming from the cut inside option.

While i agree with all that, it should be pointed out that although not many times in a game, Silva, Yaya, AJ, Kolarov, Lescott, Micah and i think even Ade have all got to the byline and attempted to put it in the box.. sometimes successfully. So point is even without the formal 4-4-2 it can still happen and we are trying to do that.

Just thought id point that out.

Often when they do that though, there's nobody in the box anyhow & they just give the ball away because players won't make the runs unless they think the ball is going to come in & it usually doesn't. Imo 4-4-2 or not, the Prem is different to Europe & international football & it won't work just trying to play precision football all the time, looking for the prefect goal. The rags & Chelsea have found the blend of mixing up possession football with delivering balls into the box often with pace & people getting on the end of them. Half their goals, maybe more, are scored by people hammering the ball into dangerous areas or played from wide (with the correct foot) be it for headers, along the ground into the six yard box or pulled back to the edge of the box.

I'm hoping our new fullbacks will give us that option, whatever system we play, as it's a huge part of the game we're missing in which our competitors (bar Arsenal & Liverpool) are all absolute experts, right down to Villa & Everton.

[brite blu sky]

When players get to the line to cross the ball, a host of opportunities and possibilities open up. It doesn't necessarily have to be played in for a tall striker. Cut back to players arriving late, hard and low across the six yard box, or the option of a higher ball to Ade or the like (who has scored with his head I think you'll find) are all in the frame. It is as has been pointed out about variation. Sure, swap wings for a different approach at some point, but it always seems to limit the options when a winger is having to cut back inside. Plus the angle of delivery seems to require a more pinpoint accurate cross when coming from the cut inside option.

While i agree with all that, it should be pointed out that although not many times in a game, Silva, Yaya, AJ, Kolarov, Lescott, Micah and i think even Ade have all got to the byline and attempted to put it in the box.. sometimes successfully. So point is even without the formal 4-4-2 it can still happen and we are trying to do that.

Just thought id point that out.

Often when they do that though, there's nobody in the box anyhow & they just give the ball away because players won't make the runs unless they think the ball is going to come in & it usually doesn't. Imo 4-4-2 or not, the Prem is different to Europe & international football & it won't work just trying to play precision football all the time, looking for the prefect goal. The rags & Chelsea have found the blend of mixing up possession football with delivering balls into the box often with pace & people getting on the end of them. Half their goals, maybe more, are scored by people hammering the ball into dangerous areas or played from wide (with the correct foot) be it for headers, along the ground into the six yard box or pulled back to the edge of the box.

I'm hoping our new fullbacks will give us that option, whatever system we play, as it's a huge part of the game we're missing in which our competitors (bar Arsenal & Liverpool) are all absolute experts, right down to Villa & Everton.

I hold out some hope that the players we have will get some joy from getting into wide areas and finding someone in the box, but i agree with you and have been saying that while precision football is all well and good it needs mixing up. I also think that the way we will play the fullbacks will make a lot of difference. The other factor of course is what impact Balotelli will have both on our own shape and defences.

[Ted Hughes]

When players get to the line to cross the ball, a host of opportunities and possibilities open up. It doesn't necessarily have to be played in for a tall striker. Cut back to players arriving late, hard and low across the six yard box, or the option of a higher ball to Ade or the like (who has scored with his head I think you'll find) are all in the frame. It is as has been pointed out about variation. Sure, swap wings for a different approach at some point, but it always seems to limit the options when a winger is having to cut back inside. Plus the angle of delivery seems to require a more pinpoint accurate cross when coming from the cut inside option.

While i agree with all that, it should be pointed out that although not many times in a game, Silva, Yaya, AJ, Kolarov, Lescott, Micah and i think even Ade have all got to the byline and attempted to put it in the box.. sometimes successfully. So point is even without the formal 4-4-2 it can still happen and we are trying to do that.

Just thought id point that out.

Often when they do that though, there's nobody in the box anyhow & they just give the ball away because players won't make the runs unless they think the ball is going to come in & it usually doesn't. Imo 4-4-2 or not, the Prem is different to Europe & international football & it won't work just trying to play precision football all the time, looking for the prefect goal. The rags & Chelsea have found the blend of mixing up possession football with delivering balls into the box often with pace & people getting on the end of them. Half their goals, maybe more, are scored by people hammering the ball into dangerous areas or played from wide (with the correct foot) be it for headers, along the ground into the six yard box or pulled back to the edge of the box.

I'm hoping our new fullbacks will give us that option, whatever system we play, as it's a huge part of the game we're missing in which our competitors (bar Arsenal & Liverpool) are all absolute experts, right down to Villa & Everton.

I hold out some hope that the players we have will get some joy from getting into wide areas and finding someone in the box, but i agree with you and have been saying that while precision football is all well and good it needs mixing up. I also think that the way we will play the fullbacks will make a lot of difference. The other factor of course is what impact Balotelli will have both on our own shape and defences.

From what I've seen so far, the fullbacks & David Silva hitting top form & producing their best would make us a top 4 team but Balotelli? He could turn us into something entirely different. Not just by his own performance but by lifting others such as Adebayor. If Balotelli clicks anything is possible. If he doesn't we'll just have to try & go all out for fourth & see if we can nick a cup.

[brite blu sky]

From what I've seen so far, the fullbacks & David Silva hitting top form & producing their best would make us a top 4 team but Balotelli? He could turn us into something entirely different. Not just by his own performance but by lifting others such as Adebayor. If Balotelli clicks anything is possible. If he doesn't we'll just have to try & go all out for fourth & see if we can nick a cup

Balotelli could well be the catalyst as you say. But even forgetting he exists at all, we still have a cracking line up. Ade needs to pull one out of the bag to get going.. as do others as we have looked rusty so far, but not going all glass half full or half empty we have no reason to think that it wont get going and click in the next games. As you say throw Balotelli in the pot and anything could happen both from him and his effect on others.

In ref to the OP it will be interesting to see after a few games how Balotelli's impact makes a difference on our shape and lineup.

[Ted Hughes]

From what I've seen so far, the fullbacks & David Silva hitting top form & producing their best would make us a top 4 team but Balotelli? He could turn us into something entirely different. Not just by his own performance but by lifting others such as Adebayor. If Balotelli clicks anything is possible. If he doesn't we'll just have to try & go all out for fourth & see if we can nick a cup

Balotelli could well be the catalyst as you say. But even forgetting he exists at all, we still have a cracking line up. Ade needs to pull one out of the bag to get going.. as do others as we have looked rusty so far, but not going all glass half full or half empty we have no reason to think that it wont get going and click in the next games. As you say throw Balotelli in the pot and anything could happen both from him and his effect on others.

In ref to the OP it will be interesting to see after a few games how Balotelli's impact makes a difference on our shape and lineup.

Balotelli playing means that when we have a free kick, we can allow ourselves to get excited at the prospect we may have a chance of actually scoring from it rather than just passing it to the keeper.

[brite blu sky]

From what I've seen so far, the fullbacks & David Silva hitting top form & producing their best would make us a top 4 team but Balotelli? He could turn us into something entirely different. Not just by his own performance but by lifting others such as Adebayor. If Balotelli clicks anything is possible. If he doesn't we'll just have to try & go all out for fourth & see if we can nick a cup

Balotelli could well be the catalyst as you say. But even forgetting he exists at all, we still have a cracking line up. Ade needs to pull one out of the bag to get going.. as do others as we have looked rusty so far, but not going all glass half full or half empty we have no reason to think that it wont get going and click in the next games. As you say throw Balotelli in the pot and anything could happen both from him and his effect on others.

In ref to the OP it will be interesting to see after a few games how Balotelli's impact makes a difference on our shape and lineup.

Balotelli playing means that when we have a free kick, we can allow ourselves to get excited at the prospect we may have a chance of actually scoring from it rather than just passing it to the keeper.

Hee hee hee.. cant wait. in fact like all of us, cant wait to see the lad get going in the Prem. i dont want to put any imaginary pressure on the whole idea, so im happy just to see what happens over a few games.. that said he just seems to be that kind of player that you cannot help but get excited about. If he brings a bit of that feeling to the other players in the team then we could be in for some fun. I hope he gets some game time on Sat.. at home.. tiring Blackburn defenders.. sounds about right to me.

[Ted Hughes]

From what I've seen so far, the fullbacks & David Silva hitting top form & producing their best would make us a top 4 team but Balotelli? He could turn us into something entirely different. Not just by his own performance but by lifting others such as Adebayor. If Balotelli clicks anything is possible. If he doesn't we'll just have to try & go all out for fourth & see if we can nick a cup

Balotelli could well be the catalyst as you say. But even forgetting he exists at all, we still have a cracking line up. Ade needs to pull one out of the bag to get going.. as do others as we have looked rusty so far, but not going all glass half full or half empty we have no reason to think that it wont get going and click in the next games. As you say throw Balotelli in the pot and anything could happen both from him and his effect on others.

In ref to the OP it will be interesting to see after a few games how Balotelli's impact makes a difference on our shape and lineup.

Balotelli playing means that when we have a free kick, we can allow ourselves to get excited at the prospect we may have a chance of actually scoring from it rather than just passing it to the keeper.

Hee hee hee.. cant wait. in fact like all of us, cant wait to see the lad get going in the Prem. i dont want to put any imaginary pressure on the whole idea, so im happy just to see what happens over a few games.. that said he just seems to be that kind of player that you cannot help but get excited about. If he brings a bit of that feeling to the other players in the team then we could be in for some fun. I hope he gets some game time on Sat.. at home.. tiring Blackburn defenders.. sounds about right to me.

Balotelli comiing on & performing like he did in the Europa would send a shiver of fear through the competition. Most will have no fucking idea who he is.

[ashton287]

We should play without a striker like Spain for some games, so forget 4-4-2 imo

We tried this for most of sunderland and lost

[Blue Since 76]

We should play without a striker like Spain for some games, so forget 4-4-2 imo

We tried this for most of sunderland and lost

Due to a glaring miss from Tevez, some brave saves by their keeper at yaya's feet and brilliant reactions to Ade's flick. Not like we didn't create any chances

[ashton287]

We should play without a striker like Spain for some games, so forget 4-4-2 imo

We tried this for most of sunderland and lost

Due to a glaring miss from Tevez, some brave saves by their keeper at yaya's feet and brilliant reactions to Ade's flick. Not like we didn't create any chances

It was a joke at tevez's expense. Put your knickers back on.

[gillie]

I made this thread because the system we are playing now makes the oppo defenders look good as we have no one in the oppos box when we go forward.Surely with 2 wingers we can put the oppos under pressure when they are on the back foot but no why because all thats in the oppos box is oppos defenders because we dont play a centre forward.

[Kladze]

I made this thread because the system we are playing now makes the oppo defenders look good as we have no one in the oppos box when we go forward.Surely with 2 wingers we can put the oppos under pressure when they are on the back foot but no why because all thats in the oppos box is oppos defenders because we dont play a centre forward.

Defenders quite like it when they have a specific 'man in the box' type player to mark though. They know where they stand and what they're supposed to do.
What they don't like is having to make decisions like "Should I go with this player who's dropping off or should I leave him to a midfield player?"

Think Bergkamp, Dalglish, Milito etc

[Blue Since 76]

I made this thread because the system we are playing now makes the oppo defenders look good as we have no one in the oppos box when we go forward.Surely with 2 wingers we can put the oppos under pressure when they are on the back foot but no why because all thats in the oppos box is oppos defenders because we dont play a centre forward.

I'm not sure we're seeing the full system yet though, with milner only just arrived, balo not available, yaya and silva not quite up to speed and both first choice full backs missing.

We can debate tactics and formations, but it's not fair to judge us in any formation for a month or so yet.

[brite blu sky]

I made this thread because the system we are playing now makes the oppo defenders look good as we have no one in the oppos box when we go forward.Surely with 2 wingers we can put the oppos under pressure when they are on the back foot but no why because all thats in the oppos box is oppos defenders because we dont play a centre forward.

Defenders quite like it when they have a specific 'man in the box' type player to mark though. They know where they stand and what they're supposed to do.
What they don't like is having to make decisions like "Should I go with this player who's dropping off or should I leave him to a midfield player?"

Think Bergkamp, Dalglish, Milito etc

i dont like those playes though..




i want my mummy and 4-4-2