Stadium Expansion..

[Beefymcfc]

Some really good posts on here, and thanks to John for his historical research.

I don't think there are any plans to expand the stadium in the short term, but I'm with a few others that we are aiming to have the biggest capacity in UK football and plan to fill it with cheap down to earth tickets for those that cannot pay the excessive prices the Premier clubs now demand. As long as it's feasible, I can see us looking at an 80,000 plus capacity with cheap safe standing areas to one end of the scale, and high class 'Champagne Charlie' lounges at the other.

[paulmclaren]

65-000 tops.
But the good thing from 75-000 seats is there will always be available.
And the tickets might come down in price to get bums on seats.

[Ted Hughes]

Some really good posts on here, and thanks to John for his historical research.

I don't think there are any plans to expand the stadium in the short term, but I'm with a few others that we are aiming to have the biggest capacity in UK football and plan to fill it with cheap down to earth tickets for those that cannot pay the excessive prices the Premier clubs now demand. As long as it's feasible, I can see us looking at an 80,000 plus capacity with cheap safe standing areas to one end of the scale, and high class 'Champagne Charlie' lounges at the other.

I think we'll do one end within the next few seasons then maybe leave it quite a while. One end would get it up to about 60k & it will take a while before we start to fill it but allow us to gradually increase the average ready for when Messi signs.

[ronk]

Some really good posts on here, and thanks to John for his historical research.

I don't think there are any plans to expand the stadium in the short term, but I'm with a few others that we are aiming to have the biggest capacity in UK football and plan to fill it with cheap down to earth tickets for those that cannot pay the excessive prices the Premier clubs now demand. As long as it's feasible, I can see us looking at an 80,000 plus capacity with cheap safe standing areas to one end of the scale, and high class 'Champagne Charlie' lounges at the other.

I can't. There's too much of a contradiction. There's no reason to expect that safe standing will happen or that it will increase the density. Premium seats require more space. Expanding to 80k and increasing the corporate facilities would leave a large number of absolutely rubbish seats to be flogged off for half nothing and would probably detract from everyone's matchday experience. This is at odds with the type of changes Cook etc have been making. I can see them being more likely to implement infrastructure so families can cycle to matches together (kind of stuff) combined with relatively modest expansion as opposed to kamikaze stadium expansion.

[Ted Hughes]

Some really good posts on here, and thanks to John for his historical research.

I don't think there are any plans to expand the stadium in the short term, but I'm with a few others that we are aiming to have the biggest capacity in UK football and plan to fill it with cheap down to earth tickets for those that cannot pay the excessive prices the Premier clubs now demand. As long as it's feasible, I can see us looking at an 80,000 plus capacity with cheap safe standing areas to one end of the scale, and high class 'Champagne Charlie' lounges at the other.

I can't. There's too much of a contradiction. There's no reason to expect that safe standing will happen or that it will increase the density. Premium seats require more space. Expanding to 80k and increasing the corporate facilities would leave a large number of absolutely rubbish seats to be flogged off for half nothing and would probably detract from everyone's matchday experience. This is at odds with the type of changes Cook etc have been making. I can see them being more likely to implement infrastructure so families can cycle to matches together (kind of stuff) combined with relatively modest expansion as opposed to kamikaze stadium expansion.

Building both ends now would be a bit much imo but putting another tier on one end won't ruin the atmosphere & the other end can follow in the future. As the stadium is mostly full for PL games now, after years of total failure, it's hardly a huge leap to imagine the new area also being mostly full if/when we start winning trophies. Having the scope to fit another 13-15k in the stadium will just mean we get bigger gates for some games & eventually we'll start to fill it regularly.

[Blue Since 76]

Some really good posts on here, and thanks to John for his historical research.

I don't think there are any plans to expand the stadium in the short term, but I'm with a few others that we are aiming to have the biggest capacity in UK football and plan to fill it with cheap down to earth tickets for those that cannot pay the excessive prices the Premier clubs now demand. As long as it's feasible, I can see us looking at an 80,000 plus capacity with cheap safe standing areas to one end of the scale, and high class 'Champagne Charlie' lounges at the other.

I agree, an extra 30,000 seats would enable more corporates, plus more cheap seats. An extra 5,000 family stand for example, to bring in the future fans, more non-season tickets, for those who can only afford the occasional game. Maybe a large number of worse view seats e.g. 4th tier at £10 a game etc. You could even allow huge away support, providing we didn't create a Kop for them (which would be typical City). Unlike other clubs, the seats don't gave to pay for the expansion, just cover the wages etc for the uefa regs. More people means more ticket income plus more pies, pints and shirts. If you're trying to recoup a couple of hundred million paid for building works, you're in trouble, but every penny in is increased turnover and profit.

Despite ruining football, it would be great if we could make it a game for everyone again.

[ronk]

Building both ends now would be a bit much imo but putting another tier on one end won't ruin the atmosphere & the other end can follow in the future. As the stadium is mostly full for PL games now, after years of total failure, it's hardly a huge leap to imagine the new area also being mostly full if/when we start winning trophies. Having the scope to fit another 13-15k in the stadium will just mean we get bigger gates for some games & eventually we'll start to fill it regularly.

Completing the 3rd tier would count as relatively modest expansion for me. There's a huge difference between 60k and 80k, especially because the quality of most of those extra seats will be inferior.

[zuricity]

Firstly, I'm all in favour of expansion, it should lower seat prices in the longer term.

Since I no longer live in Mancy and have had no vote there for years anyway. I simply would like to point out that
if I did have a vote and some councillor or elected politician prevented our owners from buying the stadium after
investing billions in schemes and projects in the vicinity of the stadium, i'd certainly be calling for his ( or her - continuing with the Python themes that seem to be pervading the site recently !) balls on a plate.

[Beefymcfc]

I think we have to take not only the fans into consideration, but our owners and head-sheds as well. They have already set the vision for the future, and to be classed as being at the pinnacle of world football, all the facilities must be in line with that philosophy.

[Socrates]

Firstly, I'm all in favour of expansion, it should lower seat prices in the longer term.

Since I no longer live in Mancy and have had no vote there for years anyway. I simply would like to point out that
if I did have a vote and some councillor or elected politician prevented our owners from buying the stadium after
investing billions in schemes and projects in the vicinity of the stadium, i'd certainly be calling for his ( or her - continuing with the Python themes that seem to be pervading the site recently !) balls on a plate.

you are missing the point, the politicians cannot just sell it to us - they would have to repay the £77 million grant from Sport England if they did so. That would mean City paying £77,000,000 over and above it's value in order to be able to buy it as the politicians would not be able to take less than it's value, they have no choice in that. Why on earth would we want to pay such a ludicrous sum for the freehold of a stadium that we already own the leasehold on?

[zuricity]

Firstly, I'm all in favour of expansion, it should lower seat prices in the longer term.

Since I no longer live in Mancy and have had no vote there for years anyway. I simply would like to point out that
if I did have a vote and some councillor or elected politician prevented our owners from buying the stadium after
investing billions in schemes and projects in the vicinity of the stadium, i'd certainly be calling for his ( or her - continuing with the Python themes that seem to be pervading the site recently !) balls on a plate.

you are missing the point, the politicians cannot just sell it to us - they would have to repay the £77 million grant from Sport England if they did so. That would mean City paying £77,000,000 over and above it's value in order to be able to buy it as the politicians would not be able to take less than it's value, they have no choice in that. Why on earth would we want to pay such a ludicrous sum for the freehold of a stadium that we already own the leasehold on?

What on earth do you mean , "I am missing the point ?". I think you mean i am missing your point.

Let's get real. The stadium is only worth what the buyer decides to pay for it, as long as the seller is happy with the price and agrees to a sale. Now, I think I've covered myself from a legal point of view as far as contract law is concerned.

As for the value of the stadium. That can change from today to tomorrow.

If, after the great 'con job' from Wall Street and the bad mortgages in the US that caused such a melt down that capitalism went socialist in the "good ol US of A" . Whereby General Motors, a loss leading concern for twenty years , went belly up and
turned cap in hand communists, begging their government to bail them out.

If, after years of financing with our taxes, all roads (and motorways to Old Trafford) towards the West of Manchester, and traffic improvements almost in the vicinity of that new shopping mall , close to where the Cricket ground is.

If, the council and the politicians don't know when the hand is feeding them and can't sell the ground for some derisory amount.

Then,

The Denver Colts will win the Super Bowl again.

and you might have a point ,

Until then I think they are slowly realising that the gravy train is now pointing Eastwards from AlbertSquare towards the Pennines

[Blue Since 76]

Firstly, I'm all in favour of expansion, it should lower seat prices in the longer term.

Since I no longer live in Mancy and have had no vote there for years anyway. I simply would like to point out that
if I did have a vote and some councillor or elected politician prevented our owners from buying the stadium after
investing billions in schemes and projects in the vicinity of the stadium, i'd certainly be calling for his ( or her - continuing with the Python themes that seem to be pervading the site recently !) balls on a plate.

you are missing the point, the politicians cannot just sell it to us - they would have to repay the £77 million grant from Sport England if they did so. That would mean City paying £77,000,000 over and above it's value in order to be able to buy it as the politicians would not be able to take less than it's value, they have no choice in that. Why on earth would we want to pay such a ludicrous sum for the freehold of a stadium that we already own the leasehold on?

What on earth do you mean , "I am missing the point ?". I think you mean i am missing your point.

Let's get real. The stadium is only worth what the buyer decides to pay for it, as long as the seller is happy with the price and agrees to a sale. Now, I think I've covered myself from a legal point of view as far as contract law is concerned.

As for the value of the stadium. That can change from today to tomorrow.

If, after the great 'con job' from Wall Street and the bad mortgages in the US that caused such a melt down that capitalism went socialist in the "good ol US of A" . Whereby General Motors, a loss leading concern for twenty years , went belly up and
turned cap in hand communists, begging their government to bail them out.

If, after years of financing with our taxes, all roads (and motorways to Old Trafford) towards the West of Manchester, and traffic improvements almost in the vicinity of that new shopping mall , close to where the Cricket ground is.

If, the council and the politicians don't know when the hand is feeding them and can't sell the ground for some derisory amount.

Then,

The Denver Colts will win the Super Bowl again.

and you might have a point ,

Until then I think they are slowly realising that the gravy train is now pointing Eastwards from AlbertSquare towards the Pennines

Think the problem is it was a grant and may not therefore be able to be sold without permission from sport england. They may agree, providing it included improved facilities for the public. As long as the council don't veto plans for expansion or expect 50% of revenue on 70,000 seats, there's no need to buy it. Plus, it being paid for by council tax infuriates rags, so I'm happy for it to be a council house.

[zuricity]

I don't think that the grant is a problem at all, if the owner wants to invest billions in Manchester, i'm sure even the most dedicted and non corrupt politician could find a way to push the sale through. In the end it's only a matter of business for the owner and if the price is right he will pay ( even over the odds as well as we have seen with RSC), in the long term he will be making money out of his investments., eg Barclay Bank. This smart young man knows what he's doing.

[Ted Hughes]

I don't think that the grant is a problem at all, if the owner wants to invest billions in Manchester, i'm sure even the most dedicted and non corrupt politician could find a way to push the sale through. In the end it's only a matter of business for the owner and if the price is right he will pay ( even over the odds as well as we have seen with RSC), in the long term he will be making money out of his investments., eg Barclay Bank. This smart young man knows what he's doing.

That won't involve willfully chucking money away though. He'll only try to buy the stadium if he finds it's neccessary. If he can come to a suitable arrangement with the council regarding their 'cut' & he doesn't need to pay out for the stadium, then I'm sure he'd rather use the £70 odd mil for something else. There are people employed to try & do the best deal on his behalf anyway so they won't be spending his funds so easily. This is a business deal, not part of the transfer budget.

[ant london]

there is absolutely no need to purchase the freehold

the club can negotiate with the freehold owners (ie. the council) for permission to do whatever they want to the site and the stadium without the need to buy the council's interest and necessitate any payments to Sport England.

even if they decided to buy it, the fact that the original grant from Sport England said that the monies would be repayable if the council sold the stadium I am pretty sure was intended to ensure that the site stayed as as sporting venue long term...ie. it was intended to prevent the council from selling the Commonwealth Games site and stadium to Tesco to be redeveloped.

Fact of the matter is that if City negotiated with Sport England and the City Council they could reach some deal where City made some contribution into SE's coffers and they would waive the full amount...I'm pretty positive of that.

BUT that doesn't change the fact that we do not need to buy the ground to expand the capacity, we just need our landlord's consent to modify the stadium....and I cannot see them withholding that consent as it is massively in their (ie. the city of manchester's) interest for us to be able to do that and bring even more business into manchester and the area around the ground

[CitizenYank]

WHOA!! 75K?? Let's win some silver first boys.

[s1ty m]

Firstly, I'm all in favour of expansion, it should lower seat prices in the longer term.

Since I no longer live in Mancy and have had no vote there for years anyway. I simply would like to point out that
if I did have a vote and some councillor or elected politician prevented our owners from buying the stadium after
investing billions in schemes and projects in the vicinity of the stadium, i'd certainly be calling for his ( or her - continuing with the Python themes that seem to be pervading the site recently !) balls on a plate.

you are missing the point, the politicians cannot just sell it to us - they would have to repay the £77 million grant from Sport England if they did so. That would mean City paying £77,000,000 over and above it's value in order to be able to buy it as the politicians would not be able to take less than it's value, they have no choice in that. Why on earth would we want to pay such a ludicrous sum for the freehold of a stadium that we already own the leasehold on?

What on earth do you mean , "I am missing the point ?". I think you mean i am missing your point.

Let's get real. The stadium is only worth what the buyer decides to pay for it, as long as the seller is happy with the price and agrees to a sale. Now, I think I've covered myself from a legal point of view as far as contract law is concerned.

As for the value of the stadium. That can change from today to tomorrow.

If, after the great 'con job' from Wall Street and the bad mortgages in the US that caused such a melt down that capitalism went socialist in the "good ol US of A" . Whereby General Motors, a loss leading concern for twenty years , went belly up and
turned cap in hand communists, begging their government to bail them out.

If, after years of financing with our taxes, all roads (and motorways to Old Trafford) towards the West of Manchester, and traffic improvements almost in the vicinity of that new shopping mall , close to where the Cricket ground is.

If, the council and the politicians don't know when the hand is feeding them and can't sell the ground for some derisory amount.

Then,

The [highlight]Denver Colts[/highlight] will win the Super Bowl again.

and you might have a point ,

Until then I think they are slowly realising that the gravy train is now pointing Eastwards from AlbertSquare towards the Pennines

broncos mate, broncos! lol.

[s1ty m]

Firstly, I'm all in favour of expansion, it should lower seat prices in the longer term.

Since I no longer live in Mancy and have had no vote there for years anyway. I simply would like to point out that
if I did have a vote and some councillor or elected politician prevented our owners from buying the stadium after
investing billions in schemes and projects in the vicinity of the stadium, i'd certainly be calling for his ( or her - continuing with the Python themes that seem to be pervading the site recently !) balls on a plate.

you are missing the point, the politicians cannot just sell it to us - they would have to repay the £77 million grant from Sport England if they did so. That would mean City paying £77,000,000 over and above it's value in order to be able to buy it as the politicians would not be able to take less than it's value, they have no choice in that. Why on earth would we want to pay such a ludicrous sum for the freehold of a stadium that we already own the leasehold on?

What on earth do you mean , "I am missing the point ?". I think you mean i am missing your point.

Let's get real. The stadium is only worth what the buyer decides to pay for it, as long as the seller is happy with the price and agrees to a sale. Now, I think I've covered myself from a legal point of view as far as contract law is concerned.

As for the value of the stadium. That can change from today to tomorrow.

If, after the great 'con job' from Wall Street and the bad mortgages in the US that caused such a melt down that capitalism went socialist in the "good ol US of A" . Whereby General Motors, a loss leading concern for twenty years , went belly up and
turned cap in hand communists, begging their government to bail them out.

If, after years of financing with our taxes, all roads (and motorways to Old Trafford) towards the West of Manchester, and traffic improvements almost in the vicinity of that new shopping mall , close to where the Cricket ground is.

If, the council and the politicians don't know when the hand is feeding them and can't sell the ground for some derisory amount.

Then,

The Denver Colts will win the Super Bowl again.

and you might have a point ,

Until then I think they are slowly realising that the gravy train is now pointing Eastwards from AlbertSquare towards the Pennines

hey zurich, you joined 21 minutes after me in 2005 and i have made 71 more posts than you. make that 72. just saying, quite a similarity there. cheers .

[ronk]

hey zurich, you joined 21 minutes after me in 2005 and i have made 71 more posts than you. make that 72. just saying, quite a similarity there. cheers .

Isn't that when you all re-signed up to the new forum.

[s1ty m]

hey zurich, you joined 21 minutes after me in 2005 and i have made 71 more posts than you. make that 72. just saying, quite a similarity there. cheers .

Isn't that when you all re-signed up to the new forum.

shit. yes. i'll get my coat.