Are we too negative?

[Mike J]

The negative performances v such as Arsenal cost us the Champ's league & not attacking the rags at home cost us the League Cup.

We beat the rags at home in the League Cup.

think what he meant was that they were there for the taking. the victory could and should of been by a bigger margin.

[Murph]

Really good debate this one. I think we might need to give it three or four games until everyone's up to speed and the new signings have had a bit of time to settle in, before we can judge Mancini's plans a bit better. I could understand the midfield 3 selection for spurs with it being the first game but I wouldn't like to see that 3 all in the same team very often, perhaps just the real difficult away games. I also thought it was a mistake not to play Adebayor at spurs we needed someone on there to lead the line and try and get a grip of the ball, Tevez was too deep too often for my liking. I also think we need to get Adam Johnson in the team on a regular basis, I love watching this kid play, I'm as certain as I've ever been that this lad will be a top class player.

Tbf though, the front 3; Tevez & Silva are nowhere near match fit & SWP was rubbish. (Bellamy should have been playing but that's another story)

A fully fit front 3 of Tevez & Balotelli in front of Silva backed up by Yaya & Milner in front of DeJong with Boateng & Kolarov going forward is a decent attacking formation which could form into a midfield 5 or even 6 when we lose the ball.

That's the way I see it panning out as well, I'm really excited by the thought of watching that team play when they are all up to speed. I wouldn't count Barry out, I thought he had one of his best games for us v spuds, I've been very disappointed with him so far but that performance gave me some hope for the future. I just hope AJ can get his fair share of starts as well.

[Im_Spartacus]

Really good debate this one. I think we might need to give it three or four games until everyone's up to speed and the new signings have had a bit of time to settle in, before we can judge Mancini's plans a bit better.

Did we not keep saying that last season only to see turgid spectacle follow turgid spectacle.

I am not optimistic at all that Mancini will change, and I suspect that the Liverpool game will be just as bad as it was last season. It will be a crying shame with all the talent at our disposal our first concern for 60 mins is to stop the other team from playing.

It might get results, but the ground will be empty.

[King Kev]

Did we not keep saying that last season only to see turgid spectacle follow turgid spectacle.

As I mentioned earlier, only 3 teams scored more league goals than us last season. I'm not sure how that could be called 'turgid spectacle follow turgid spectacle' - Are you sure you're not thinking of 06/07??

[Im_Spartacus]

Did we not keep saying that last season only to see turgid spectacle follow turgid spectacle.

As I mentioned earlier, only 3 teams scored more league goals than us last season. I'm not sure how that could be called 'turgid spectacle follow turgid spectacle' - Are you sure you're not thinking of 06/07??

No, I am most definately thinking of last season. I think the question of negativity is even more to the fore with the stat you pointed out. We put a number of lesser teams to the sword last year, particularly at home. Call me ultra critical, but the games vs Blackburn, Wigan & Birmingham (despite a total of 12 goals) were absolutely dire as spectacles, as we wore those teams above down over the course of the game which is not an approach the british are familiar with, and one of the criticisms levelled at Mourinho no less.

Whilst the results were great, the games were a dreadful spectacle regardless how many goals we ended up scoring.

The same approach led to an abysmal record against the top 7 sides, and it is these that we will have to up our game against next season. From the evidence of the Spuds game, we simply setup to frustrate them which is absolutely no different to how we setup against them at home last year. This is why I believe the setup against Liverpool will be similarly negative to last seasons outing.

I honestly don't think I would renew my ST next season if we carried on in the same vein, because I simply can't enjoy football when it is played like that. For me, winning isn't everything.

[john@staustell]

Did we not keep saying that last season only to see turgid spectacle follow turgid spectacle.

As I mentioned earlier, only 3 teams scored more league goals than us last season. I'm not sure how that could be called 'turgid spectacle follow turgid spectacle' - Are you sure you're not thinking of 06/07??

No, I am most definately thinking of last season. I think the question of negativity is even more to the fore with the stat you pointed out. We put a number of lesser teams to the sword last year, particularly at home. Call me ultra critical, but the games vs Blackburn, Wigan & Birmingham (despite a total of 12 goals) were absolutely dire as spectacles, as we wore those teams above down over the course of the game which is not an approach the british are familiar with, and one of the criticisms levelled at Mourinho no less.

Whilst the results were great, the games were a dreadful spectacle regardless how many goals we ended up scoring.

The same approach led to an abysmal record against the top 7 sides, and it is these that we will have to up our game against next season. From the evidence of the Spuds game, we simply setup to frustrate them which is absolutely no different to how we setup against them at home last year. This is why I believe the setup against Liverpool will be similarly negative to last seasons outing.

I honestly don't think I would renew my ST next season if we carried on in the same vein, because I simply can't enjoy football when it is played like that. For me, winning isn't everything.

Dont follow that at all. I quite enjoyed the Brum game myself. You better get used to it because we will be wearing lots of teams down now. Last season we had totally the wrong personnel but started shaping up.

How on earth can you stop watching as soon as we get to the top after watching utter shite for 30 years?

Absolute total insane madness.

[Im_Spartacus]

Did we not keep saying that last season only to see turgid spectacle follow turgid spectacle.

As I mentioned earlier, only 3 teams scored more league goals than us last season. I'm not sure how that could be called 'turgid spectacle follow turgid spectacle' - Are you sure you're not thinking of 06/07??

No, I am most definately thinking of last season. I think the question of negativity is even more to the fore with the stat you pointed out. We put a number of lesser teams to the sword last year, particularly at home. Call me ultra critical, but the games vs Blackburn, Wigan & Birmingham (despite a total of 12 goals) were absolutely dire as spectacles, as we wore those teams above down over the course of the game which is not an approach the british are familiar with, and one of the criticisms levelled at Mourinho no less.

Whilst the results were great, the games were a dreadful spectacle regardless how many goals we ended up scoring.

The same approach led to an abysmal record against the top 7 sides, and it is these that we will have to up our game against next season. From the evidence of the Spuds game, we simply setup to frustrate them which is absolutely no different to how we setup against them at home last year. This is why I believe the setup against Liverpool will be similarly negative to last seasons outing.

I honestly don't think I would renew my ST next season if we carried on in the same vein, because I simply can't enjoy football when it is played like that. For me, winning isn't everything.

Dont follow that at all. I quite enjoyed the Brum game myself. You better get used to it because we will be wearing lots of teams down now. Last season we had totally the wrong personnel but started shaping up.

How on earth can you stop watching as soon as we get to the top after watching utter shite for 30 years?

Absolute total insane madness.

I just can't get a buzz out of a football game played in that vein, and seeing as the prices have gotten silly in the bar, I no longer have the option of staying on the concourse drinking myself into a stupour to numb my frustration.

Aside from Barcelona, I feel we have unequalled attacking potential which will simply not be used because the boss is so concerned about not conceding. We have a total embarrassment of riches with Silva, Ade, Balotelli, Johnson, Tevez, Milner, and just think they will be completely underemployed in the majority of games.

I hope to be proven wrong, and hope that what we actually see is that after a short period of imposing ourselves on the opposition, we fucking muller teams with style. I live in hope, but I fear no such thing will happen vs Liverpool

[john@staustell]

When you go back in time John, Bill Shankly had exactly the same principles. To stop the other team scoring and to score a goal. The formula is unbeatable, given the right personnel. It took Shanks a lot longer than it will hopefully take us.

[Kladze]

Did we not keep saying that last season only to see turgid spectacle follow turgid spectacle.

As I mentioned earlier, only 3 teams scored more league goals than us last season. I'm not sure how that could be called 'turgid spectacle follow turgid spectacle' - Are you sure you're not thinking of 06/07??

No, I am most definately thinking of last season. I think the question of negativity is even more to the fore with the stat you pointed out. We put a number of lesser teams to the sword last year, particularly at home. Call me ultra critical, but the games vs Blackburn, Wigan & Birmingham (despite a total of 12 goals) were absolutely dire as spectacles, as we wore those teams above down over the course of the game which is not an approach the british are familiar with, and one of the criticisms levelled at Mourinho no less.

Whilst the results were great, the games were a dreadful spectacle regardless how many goals we ended up scoring.

The same approach led to an abysmal record against the top 7 sides, and it is these that we will have to up our game against next season. From the evidence of the Spuds game, we simply setup to frustrate them which is absolutely no different to how we setup against them at home last year. This is why I believe the setup against Liverpool will be similarly negative to last seasons outing.

I honestly don't think I would renew my ST next season if we carried on in the same vein, because I simply can't enjoy football when it is played like that. For me, winning isn't everything.

Dont follow that at all. I quite enjoyed the Brum game myself. You better get used to it because we will be wearing lots of teams down now. Last season we had totally the wrong personnel but started shaping up.

How on earth can you stop watching as soon as we get to the top after watching utter shite for 30 years?

Absolute total insane madness.

I just can't get a buzz out of a football game played in that vein, and seeing as the prices have gotten silly in the bar, I no longer have the option of staying on the concourse drinking myself into a stupour to numb my frustration.

Aside from Barcelona, I feel we have unequalled attacking potential which will simply not be used because the boss is so concerned about not conceding. We have a total embarrassment of riches with Silva, Ade, Balotelli, Johnson, Tevez, Milner, and just think they will be completely underemployed in the majority of games.

I hope to be proven wrong, and hope that what we actually see is that after a short period of imposing ourselves on the opposition, we fucking muller teams with style. I live in hope, but I fear no such thing will happen vs Liverpool

And you'll be proved right probably - that particular game at that particular point in the season ............

[Im_Spartacus]

When you go back in time John, Bill Shankly had exactly the same principles. To stop the other team scoring and to score a goal. The formula is unbeatable, given the right personnel. It took Shanks a lot longer than it will hopefully take us.

I know pal, its a simple game. I just worry how dull Chelsea were under Jose though - they always finished top scorers but their matches were often completely unwatchable, even though you knew they would score 3 or 4 goals before the match started.

When we appointed Mancini, or were linked with Jose, I always thought I would be one who would enjoy watching us win however we did it, but it hasnt turned out that way for me. Perhaps if we win a pot or two this season I will be able to relax a bit more, but whilst football is about winning, its also about entertainment.

At this stage of the season, I have no issue with the setup being defensive with two very difficult games so early on, I think its understandable, but fuck me we lived on the edge for 45 mins vs Spurs, and the lack of attacking threat would mean that if we conceded, we would lose.

Its such a fine line we have been treading since we appointed Mancini, and out of the 11 games we have played against the top 7/8 teams we have failed to win any of those games aside from Chelsea, which frankly is the reason we are in the Europa league, not in the CL.

[The Man In Blue]

Despite this, there were still a number of people on here whinging that we were playing boring defensive football

so you would say we had the real crack at spurs and arsenal that the situation warrented?

take that as a no then kk?

[King Kev]

Despite this, there were still a number of people on here whinging that we were playing boring defensive football

so you would say we had the real crack at spurs and arsenal that the situation warrented?

take that as a no then kk?

If you want to pick 2 games out of 38 to assess a season on then that's up to you, I would prefer not to.

[The Man In Blue]

Despite this, there were still a number of people on here whinging that we were playing boring defensive football

so you would say we had the real crack at spurs and arsenal that the situation warrented?

take that as a no then kk?

If you want to pick 2 games out of 38 to assess a season on then that's up to you, I would prefer not to.

but it's ok for you to infer we played brilliant footy throughout the second half of the season by referring to games against such footballing powerhouses as burnley and wigan?

you didn't answer the question did you? spurs, arse and the scum were the big crunch games at the end of last season. which we failed in because we were far, far, far too cautious. timid, even. scared of losing. it's fucking easy to wipe the floor with shite, near-relegated teams like burnley but much harder when it comes to the big boys.

i'll ask again: do you reckon we had a proper fucking crack at beating spuds and the arse, as the situation warrented?

[King Kev]

Despite this, there were still a number of people on here whinging that we were playing boring defensive football

so you would say we had the real crack at spurs and arsenal that the situation warrented?

take that as a no then kk?

If you want to pick 2 games out of 38 to assess a season on then that's up to you, I would prefer not to.

but it's ok for you to infer we played brilliant footy throughout the second half of the season by referring to games against such footballing powerhouses as burnley and wigan?

you didn't answer the question did you? spurs, arse and the scum were the big crunch games at the end of last season. which we failed because we were far, far, far too cautious. timid, even. scared of losing. it's fucking easy to wipe the floor with shite, near-relegated teams like burnley but much harder when it comes to the big boys.

i'll ask again, do you reckon we had a proper fucking crack at beating spuds and the arse, as the situation warrented?

You think if you swear at me I will answer your question? How strange.

As for inferring 'we played brilliant footy throughout the second half of the season by referring to games against such footballing powerhouses as burnley and wigan' - You seem to have ignored the bit about us outscoring all but 3 teams throughout the entire season.

If you want to be miserable and believe that we play boring negative football then fill yer boots. I prefer to be a bit more positive about my club.

[The Man In Blue]

You think if you swear at me I will answer your question? How strange.

As for inferring 'we played brilliant footy throughout the second half of the season by referring to games against such footballing powerhouses as burnley and wigan' - You seem to have ignored the bit about us outscoring all but 3 teams throughout the entire season.

If you want to be miserable and believe that we play boring negative football then fill yer boots. I prefer to be a bit more positive about my club.

whoa mate - i'm not trying to be aggressive - i don't think i swore at you and sorry if it came across like that.

still not answered it though have you?

look, when it mattered - and i mean really mattered - we froze. retreated into a safety first shell, and i don't just mean the players. it cost us the game spurs are playing tonight.

[King Kev]

You think if you swear at me I will answer your question? How strange.

As for inferring 'we played brilliant footy throughout the second half of the season by referring to games against such footballing powerhouses as burnley and wigan' - You seem to have ignored the bit about us outscoring all but 3 teams throughout the entire season.

If you want to be miserable and believe that we play boring negative football then fill yer boots. I prefer to be a bit more positive about my club.

whoa mate - i'm not trying to be aggressive - i don't think i swore at you and sorry if it came across like that.

still not answered it though have you?

look, when it mattered - and i mean really mattered - we froze. retreated into a safety first shell, and i don't just mean the players. it cost us the game spurs are playing tonight.

Well, seeing as you have calmed down a bit I will answer your question ;o)

No, in hindsight, in those two games we didn't play positively enough.

[The Man In Blue]

You think if you swear at me I will answer your question? How strange.

As for inferring 'we played brilliant footy throughout the second half of the season by referring to games against such footballing powerhouses as burnley and wigan' - You seem to have ignored the bit about us outscoring all but 3 teams throughout the entire season.

If you want to be miserable and believe that we play boring negative football then fill yer boots. I prefer to be a bit more positive about my club.

whoa mate - i'm not trying to be aggressive - i don't think i swore at you and sorry if it came across like that.

still not answered it though have you?

look, when it mattered - and i mean really mattered - we froze. retreated into a safety first shell, and i don't just mean the players. it cost us the game spurs are playing tonight.

Well, seeing as you have calmed down a bit I will answer your question ;o)

No, in hindsight, in those two games we didn't play positively enough.

hurrah! my point in this whole thing is i hope to hell that mancio will have a real go at teams, and i'm not just talking about wigan et al. kind of like spurs tried to do to us the other day, but maybe actually score a few goals.

[Nijinsky the Elder]

I believe we have a real problem due to my favourite plater Carlos Tevez. If he plays (which I want) we have to play 4-4-2 for as we saw against Spurs he cannot effectively lead the line. But if we play 2 up front plus an out and out defensive holding midfielder such as De Jong we are horribly exposed in the middle of the park with say a creative midfielder like Silva or dare I say it Ireland, thus have to play a more defensive player there. This results in Tevez coming deeper and deeper and us looking to play negative. I believe this is why the Rags used Tevez as an impact sub with five in midfield and a striker for the first 70 minutes of most games.

My conclusion is we cannot effectively have a positive shape if we play Tevez and de Jong ( two excellent players in their own right) in the same team. Whether having say Yaya Toure and Silva in the middle of midfield, behind a front two would fare any better will be interesting to watch. The only other solution is to play with less width and use the full backs as the crossers and such as Barry and Milner as tucked in midfielders, who can cover the full backs. Come on Mancini you have to decide.

[Socrates]

I believe we have a real problem due to my favourite plater Carlos Tevez. If he plays (which I want) we have to play 4-4-2 for as we saw against Spurs he cannot effectively lead the line. But if we play 2 up front plus an out and out defensive holding midfielder such as De Jong we are horribly exposed in the middle of the park with say a creative midfielder like Silva or dare I say it Ireland, thus have to play a more defensive player there. This results in Tevez coming deeper and deeper and us looking to play negative. I believe this is why the Rags used Tevez as an impact sub with five in midfield and a striker for the first 70 minutes of most games.

My conclusion is we cannot effectively have a positive shape if we play Tevez and de Jong ( two excellent players in their own right) in the same team. Whether having say Yaya Toure and Silva in the middle of midfield, behind a front two would fare any better will be interesting to watch. The only other solution is to play with less width and use the full backs as the crossers and such as Barry and Milner as tucked in midfielders, who can cover the full backs. Come on Mancini you have to decide.

Agree, Tevez is a class act but it is difficult to build the team around him without playing too defensively in midfield. He naturally plays so deep that he is always in the area of the pitch where an attacking mid wants to be anyway.

[mr_nool]

I believe we have a real problem due to my favourite plater Carlos Tevez. If he plays (which I want) we have to play 4-4-2 for as we saw against Spurs he cannot effectively lead the line. But if we play 2 up front plus an out and out defensive holding midfielder such as De Jong we are horribly exposed in the middle of the park with say a creative midfielder like Silva or dare I say it Ireland, thus have to play a more defensive player there. This results in Tevez coming deeper and deeper and us looking to play negative. I believe this is why the Rags used Tevez as an impact sub with five in midfield and a striker for the first 70 minutes of most games.

My conclusion is we cannot effectively have a positive shape if we play Tevez and de Jong ( two excellent players in their own right) in the same team. Whether having say Yaya Toure and Silva in the middle of midfield, behind a front two would fare any better will be interesting to watch. The only other solution is to play with less width and use the full backs as the crossers and such as Barry and Milner as tucked in midfielders, who can cover the full backs. Come on Mancini you have to decide.

Agree, Tevez is a class act but it is difficult to build the team around him without playing too defensively in midfield. He naturally plays so deep that he is always in the area of the pitch where an attacking mid wants to be anyway.

Which is why he could never play with Ireland (both occupying the same space, resulting in Ireland drawing the short straw, looking lost and almost a bit disinterested). I'm a bit worried that we will end up in the same situation with regards to Silva, but at least he doesn't look totally at lost playing on a wing.