Balkan Football

[dazby]

Why is it so good?

They've been revolutioning the crap out of each other for the past 20 years and still manage to produce a steady stream of quality players. Is it because football is the only sport they play? Looking at the population stats there aren't that many young men to choose from comparatively yet they keep showing up and qualifying for major tournaments. I can't help but be impressed.

Got any theories? Blue in Bossie, I'm looking at you mate.

[Dameerto]

They dont pay them a fortune from an early age so they grow up living football, not living the life of an over privilaged primadonna

[CityGer]

So good? Is it all that great?

The Serbs have pulled off a good result against the Germans after being beaten by Ghana. The Croats aren't there, Montenegro aren't there, Bosnia and Herzegovina aren't there.

Isn't this a slight over reaction to a decent result??

Yes, some decent players have come about over the last few years but we've not had a steady stream of world beaters, have we?

I agree with Dameerto, poverty helps in the production of players. I can't imagine there's a whole lot to do over there for the young uns.

I don't think Balkan football is particularly strong, though.

[carl_feedthegoat]

So good? Is it all that great?

The Serbs have pulled off a good result against the Germans after being beaten by Ghana. The Croats aren't there, Montenegro aren't there, Bosnia and Herzegovina aren't there.

Isn't this a slight over reaction to a decent result??

Yes, some decent players have come about over the last few years but we've not had a steady stream of world beaters, have we?

I agree with Dameerto, poverty helps in the production of players. I can't imagine there's a whole lot to do over there for the young uns.

I don't think Balkan football is particularly strong, though.

Spot on Ger !

Dazby - compared to Aussie football anything is imprressive.

[BlueinBosnia]

Why is it so good?

Is it because football is the only sport they play? Looking at the population stats there aren't that many young men to choose from comparatively yet they keep showing up and qualifying for major tournaments. I can't help but be impressed.

Got any theories? Blue in Bossie, I'm looking at you mate.

Sorry, can't do too long an answer, as I'm on a 'continental' keyboard.
Also, don't want to get into the whole eugenics of it, but they're ideally built for many sports.
It's not only football- basketball, tennis, water polo, handball, and volleyball are all strong in ex-Yugoslav states . Croatia are surprisingly good at cricket, too, for a country with no British or ex-colony influence.

Yugoslavia had a population of just over 20 million. Croatia has a population of about 4 million I think. Thing is, it has an excellent sports setup, too, in comparison to many countries (including Britain). Bosnia and Serbia are still a bit behind in development. Keep this topic near the top, and I'll write in more detail once I leave the Belgian Marginale Driehoek (triangle of marginality) tomorrow.

[BlueinBosnia]

I agree with Dameerto, poverty helps in the production of players. I can't imagine there's a whole lot to do over there for the young uns.

The crop of players that came through in the early '90s, winning champs' league with Belgrade, favourites for Euro 92, got third place in WC 98 for Croatia (the first competition any ex-Yugoslav country could qualify for after the wars) didn't exactly grow up in poverty.

It depends what you mean by 'a whole lot to do'. A decent football costs the same as a PS2, and games are far, far cheaper. Growing up in Britain, it was cheaper to buy an eighth of hash, some baccy & rizlas and 8 cans between 4, than to hire an artificial pitch or go to the cinema. The basketball courts in the park next to my house were vandalised in around 1994, and still haven't been repaired. In the town I lived in in Bosnia, there were 2 seperate areas of basketball courts, a handball court (plus numerous goals dotted around the town) and a football pitch maintained and floodlit by the municipality for 8 months of the year. Shool grounds are also open for public use on weekends and after school. This is all in reference to the sporting infrastructure that we seem to lack in Britain- although admittedly vandalism for the sake of it is virtually non-existent in the Balkans, and seems to pose the major threat to public recreation facilities in the UK. Same applies to health and safety regulations.

[CityGer]

I agree with Dameerto, poverty helps in the production of players. I can't imagine there's a whole lot to do over there for the young uns.

The crop of players that came through in the early '90s, winning champs' league with Belgrade, favourites for Euro 92, got third place in WC 98 for Croatia (the first competition any ex-Yugoslav country could qualify for after the wars) didn't exactly grow up in poverty.

It depends what you mean by 'a whole lot to do'. A decent football costs the same as a PS2, and games are far, far cheaper. Growing up in Britain, it was cheaper to buy an eighth of hash, some baccy & rizlas and 8 cans between 4, than to hire an artificial pitch or go to the cinema. The basketball courts in the park next to my house were vandalised in around 1994, and still haven't been repaired. In the town I lived in in Bosnia, there were 2 seperate areas of basketball courts, a handball court (plus numerous goals dotted around the town) and a football pitch maintained and floodlit by the municipality for 8 months of the year. Shool grounds are also open for public use on weekends and after school. This is all in reference to the sporting infrastructure that we seem to lack in Britain- although admittedly vandalism for the sake of it is virtually non-existent in the Balkans, and seems to pose the major threat to public recreation facilities in the UK. Same applies to health and safety regulations.

Thanks for that.

I still maintain that Blakan football is far from 'so good'. Moderate at best.

Dazby trying to make the Auzzies humiliation at the hands of the Germans look less shameful, I reckon.

[BlueinBosnia]

Thanks for that.

I still maintain that Blakan football is far from 'so good'. Moderate at best.

Dazby trying to make the Auzzies humiliation at the hands of the Germans look less shameful, I reckon.

I agree that 'Balkan football' isn't 'so good'. It's more 'Balkan footballers':

I'd hazard a guess that there are more professional players per head of population from the Balkans playing as foreigners in Europe's top clubs and leagues than from any other region of the world. I'll knock up a hypothetical ex-Yugo World Cup squad when I get back to mine, and you will see what I'm on about. Don't forget the children of diaspora playing for other countries, too: Ibra, Bojan Krkic, and a few others (although conversely Eduardo da Silva is hardly the most Balkanic of chaps).

[BlueinBosnia]

Montenegro aren't there.

Just noticed this. Montenegro is about the same size as Luxembourg. Yet well over half its squad will be playing Europa or Champs League this coming season. Luxembourg, in comparison, have a bench warmer at Grasshopper Zurich, who is also their only player at a top division club outside of Luxembourg itself.

[dazby]

CityGer is taking the mick surely. BlueinBossie has picked up what I was getting at. A war ravaged region with an inordinate amount of players playing at the worlds biggest clubs. The local teams don't do well in Europe yet the players get picked up by overseas clubs. I'm just trying to understand why.

[Dazzacity]

Serbs are well into their Basketball and Im sure they're one of the best in the world . They're also the tallest nation in Europe,which helps with the Basketball .. Lots of passion in the footy. Check some vids by their ultas, really impressive stuff..I think the leagues went down hill in a big way since the region broke up.

[BlueinBosnia]

Ok, now I'm back at mine, I can expand a bit with a longer post. This is just a brief summary of my own personal opinions, and, as such, does contain vast over-generalisations.

Former Yugoslavia had a population of around 23 million people, approximately twice that of Portugal. So, in those respects, its football team didn't achieve great success (2 semis and 4 quarter finals at the world cup, 1 gold, 3 silver, 1 bronze at Olympics), but were generally punching at or above their weight.

However, the team really started to form in the late '80s, winning the World Youth Championship in 1987, and performing respectably at Italia '90. Red Star Belgrade won the 1991 European Cup, and Yugoslavia emerged as favourites for Euro '92, which they were then thrown out of due to the onset of the war, and replaced by Denmark, eventual champions.

It's worth noting that, during the existence of Yugoslavia, players were forbidden from joining foreign clubs until the age of 26, ensuring a strong, competitive league, whilst also allowing players to cash in at the peak of their careers.

Obviously, there was no activity on the international scene from 1992-1994, due to the war, and breakup of the country. Slovenia, Macedonia and Croatia were allowed to enter Euro 96, with Croatia qualifying as top of their group (above Italy on goal difference). Throughout the qualifying, Croatia was still involved in military operations against Serb separatists in both Croatia and Bosnia. They were knocked out 2-1 by Germany, after finishing 2nd in their group, behind Portugal.


Both Yugoslavia (Serbia & Montenegro) and Croatia qualified for France 98. Yugoslavia went down 2-1 to the Netherlands in the last 16, and Croatia (pop. 1 million less than Scotland) finished third, winning the play-off 2-1 over the Netherlands, after being eliminated 2-1 by France. Davor Suker won the golden boot with 6 goals. Both Croatia and Yugoslavia spent the remainder of the millennium in FIFA's top 10.

That's pretty much the end of Yugoslavia's golden generation. Had there been no war, these players would have all been in the same squad, which would have been further bolstered by stars from the 'lesser' republics of Bosnia-Herzegovina, Macedonia and Slovenia.

The results of the war on sport were varied. Serbia suffered throughout the whole of the 90s on a club and international level, as it also kicked off in Kosovo. However, their team is still pretty adequate.

Croatia decided to bolster national unity by investing in sport. They've got an immense setup, which attracts foreign youths. NK Zagreb, 14th in the league this season, have brilliant training facilities (a lot of my friends play for one of their feeder clubs, Zanatlija), comparable to a decent Championship club. Dinamo and Hajduk, the 'big two' are comparable in setup to teams of a lower Premiership standard. It wouldn't surprise me if they (jointly) host a Euro Championship and/or Europa League final in the next decade and a half. They've hosted the handball world championship in 2009 (which they won in 2003, as well as 2 gold medals in the Olympics), and are relatively successful in other sports.

Bosnia was hit hardest by the Balkan wars. Not only was the infrastructure damaged, but ethnic and nationalist tensions have led to Bosnian Serbs and Croats opting to play for Serbia and Croatia respectively (current examples include Vedran Corluka, Dejan Lovren, Mladen Petric, Nikica Jelavic and Mladen Bartulovic for Croatia, Neven Subotic for Serbia, and Samir Handanovic, Zlatko Dedic & Elvedin Dzinic for Slovenia). Ironically, the same nationalism has led to players who would otherwise have played for their home nations, as the children of Gostarbeiter (or the country they spent nearly their entire life in) opting to play for Bosnia-Herzegovina. These include Zvjezdan Misimovic and Miralem Pjanic. Allegedly, Zlatan Ibrahimovic's father wanted him to play for Bosnia's national team, but he was reportedly turned away, as the coaches claimed they had “plenty of his type of player”. Youngsters who moved away during the war will have had the advantage of receiving superior coaching in Western European youth setups, and a generation of diaspora players may emerge in the next few years, as seems to be the case from players like Pjanic.


My current Yugoslav 23 man squad for this world cup would be

Goalkeepers:
Vukašin Poleksić (MN)
Samir Handanovič (SLO)
Stipe Pletikosa (HR)

Defenders:
Bostjan Cesar (SLO)
Nemanja Vidic (SRB)
Josip Simunic (HR)
Emir Spahic (BiH)
Boris Pandza (BiH)
Vedran Corluka (HR)
Branislav Ivanovic (SRB)
Neven Subotic (SRB)

Midfielders
Simon Vukčević (MN)
Robert Koren (SLO)
Luka Modric (HR)
Miralem Pjanic (BiH)
Zvjezdan Misimovic (BiH)
Dejan Stankovic (SRB)
Zoran Tosic (SRB)
Niko Kranjcar (HR)

Forwards:
Edin Dzeko (BiH)
Mirko Vucinic (MN)
Ivica Olic (HR)
Vedad Ibisevic (BiH)

I'd be confident of that squad easily reaching the quarter finals, and I think it's probably stronger than every European squad bar Spain (on paper at least). Also, I've purposefully not included Eduardo da Silva, as he's not really Yugoslav, or any players of Yugoslav ancestry/birth playing for non-Yugoslav nations.

[BlueinBosnia]

Serbs are well into their Basketball and Im sure they're one of the best in the world . They're also the tallest nation in Europe,which helps with the Basketball .. Lots of passion in the footy. Check some vids by their ultas, really impressive stuff..I think the leagues went down hill in a big way since the region broke up.

There's a lot of sports the height helps with- tennis, water polo, handball, football and basketball, to name a few. Average height of a man in that part of the world is about 6'3".

[fangsanalsatan]

Good read that, BiB. Cheers.

I'd have to nitpick at your team selection though. In my view a little biased on the bosnian side. I would never have Pandza in the team, which is lacking a LB btw. Jokic (SLO) and Kolarov (SRB) spring to mind. Same with Tosic, who may be talented, but I see Krasic (SRB), Srna (CRO) or Goran Pandev (MK) way ahead of him. I'd also consider it almost criminal to ignore Jovetic (MN). Maybe leave out Ibisevic and Koren, I don't know... Handanovic has to be number 1 of course.

I can't believe I'm below average height at 6'2"? Mad.

[Dazzacity]

Good read that, BiB. Cheers.

I'd have to nitpick at your team selection though. In my view a little biased on the bosnian side. I would never have Pandza in the team, which is lacking a LB btw. Jokic (SLO) and Kolarov (SRB) spring to mind. Same with Tosic, who may be talented, but I see Krasic (SRB), Srna (CRO) or Goran Pandev (MK) way ahead of him. I'd also consider it almost criminal to ignore Jovetic (MN). Maybe leave out Ibisevic and Koren, I don't know... Handanovic has to be number 1 of course.

I can't believe I'm below average height at 6'2"? Mad.

What about Salihamidzic? Iv heard his name mentioned a few times.

[fangsanalsatan]

Big lung, but not much else.

I'd also like to add that club football in the Balkans has major problems in nepotism, corruption and the like. I couldn't imagine where a club like Hajduk Split would be, if there weren't the mobsters in management who filled their own pockets with the club's money in recent years. I am not well informed, really, but everytime I talk to my cousins about football in Croatia that seems to be the general idea.

[BlueinBosnia]

Good read that, BiB. Cheers.

I'd have to nitpick at your team selection though. In my view a little biased on the bosnian side. I would never have Pandza in the team, which is lacking a LB btw. Jokic (SLO) and Kolarov (SRB) spring to mind. Same with Tosic, who may be talented, but I see Krasic (SRB), Srna (CRO) or Goran Pandev (MK) way ahead of him. I'd also consider it almost criminal to ignore Jovetic (MN). Maybe leave out Ibisevic and Koren, I don't know... Handanovic has to be number 1 of course.

I can't believe I'm below average height at 6'2"? Mad.

Pandza was my final selection for the team, to be honest. I don't really rate him (he was particularly poor against Belgium in both qualifying games for me), but he gets rave reviews from everyone else, so I'd just assumed I was missing something. I'd keep Koren in the squad, and Ibisevic I would see as a potential match-winning 'super sub'. Definitely not a starter, though. I didn't want to include both Vucinic and Jovetic in the same squad, as I have deep suspicions about the performance of Serie A forwards in a meatier style of gameplay.

The 6'3" is based more on people you see in Zagreb and Belgrade. People around Zenica-Doboj and Sredno Bosanski Canton seem to be shorter. I don't know if it's an ethnic thing, lifestyle thing, or an industry thing.

[BlueinBosnia]

I'd also like to add that club football in the Balkans has major problems in nepotism, corruption and the like. I couldn't imagine where a club like Hajduk Split would be, if there weren't the mobsters in management who filled their own pockets with the club's money in recent years. I am not well informed, really, but everytime I talk to my cousins about football in Croatia that seems to be the general idea.

I'll try and do a part 2 on this side of things before the end of the week. Should finish my Masters' degree on weds, so my timeframes are all a bit vague at the moment. I suspect John68 suffered something similar when he wrote his 'City in the times of cholera' epic. At least I'm still continent, though.

[DoomMerchant]

great thread. And i thought Dazby was just wasting my fuclin time again.

Cheers

[kinkylola]

I actually made this comment to my friend before the tournament started, but balkan teams/players have been really impressive lately (at least to me). I really rate them and I like the physicality they bring, while still having plenty of skillful players. Pretty much all of eastern europe really, they just seem a lot tougher than other continentals.