brite blu sky wrote:I think a lot of people are missing the point here.. goalkeepers are different to outfield players in the sense there is no cover for them.. they are as it were totally on their own. if an outfield player gets dropped it could be for all sorts of reasons.. ie a different set up or system. The goalkeeper is the goalkeeper. Capello has made a pigs ear of the selection process, not naming or determining his first choice.. it was plain wrong. The only caveat being perhaps James wasn't fit in recent weeks. The set up should have been solidified. James as first choice. Green as his back up and Joe as the rookie being there to learn and gain experience as understudy.
James has to be 1st choice as he is the only goalkeeper with experience, he is not clearly worse than the other two.. ie no-one stands out as superior. As for Joe, while as City fans we would want him to be no1.. he is an absolute rookie at this level and to throw him in under the pressure that exists could do a lot of harm to his career if he made a blunder. The other important factor is the defence and team need to know who they have got.. and they need to know them, so that any shortcomings are played around and dealt with. It is a total joke that it appears Capello was still experimenting and making his mind up as late as last week. Bad management imo.
DoomMerchant wrote:brite blu sky wrote:I think a lot of people are missing the point here.. goalkeepers are different to outfield players in the sense there is no cover for them.. they are as it were totally on their own. if an outfield player gets dropped it could be for all sorts of reasons.. ie a different set up or system. The goalkeeper is the goalkeeper. Capello has made a pigs ear of the selection process, not naming or determining his first choice.. it was plain wrong. The only caveat being perhaps James wasn't fit in recent weeks. The set up should have been solidified. James as first choice. Green as his back up and Joe as the rookie being there to learn and gain experience as understudy.
James has to be 1st choice as he is the only goalkeeper with experience, he is not clearly worse than the other two.. ie no-one stands out as superior. As for Joe, while as City fans we would want him to be no1.. he is an absolute rookie at this level and to throw him in under the pressure that exists could do a lot of harm to his career if he made a blunder. The other important factor is the defence and team need to know who they have got.. and they need to know them, so that any shortcomings are played around and dealt with. It is a total joke that it appears Capello was still experimenting and making his mind up as late as last week. Bad management imo.
How can anyone who watched the last season of Premier League football not think that Joe fuclin Hart is better than James or Green is just beyond me. i mean...FFS...there isn't even an argument for me. I don't get it. Capello made a meal of this selection and he'll get punished for it. His first real decision and, in my Cookie voice, "he bottled it."
It's not even a fucking debate.
cheers
Every Premier League game has cameras at it, if Capello didn't at least watch extended highlights of each game involving a potential England squad member then he should be sacked.brite blu sky wrote:DoomMerchant wrote:brite blu sky wrote:I think a lot of people are missing the point here.. goalkeepers are different to outfield players in the sense there is no cover for them.. they are as it were totally on their own. if an outfield player gets dropped it could be for all sorts of reasons.. ie a different set up or system. The goalkeeper is the goalkeeper. Capello has made a pigs ear of the selection process, not naming or determining his first choice.. it was plain wrong. The only caveat being perhaps James wasn't fit in recent weeks. The set up should have been solidified. James as first choice. Green as his back up and Joe as the rookie being there to learn and gain experience as understudy.
James has to be 1st choice as he is the only goalkeeper with experience, he is not clearly worse than the other two.. ie no-one stands out as superior. As for Joe, while as City fans we would want him to be no1.. he is an absolute rookie at this level and to throw him in under the pressure that exists could do a lot of harm to his career if he made a blunder. The other important factor is the defence and team need to know who they have got.. and they need to know them, so that any shortcomings are played around and dealt with. It is a total joke that it appears Capello was still experimenting and making his mind up as late as last week. Bad management imo.
How can anyone who watched the last season of Premier League football not think that Joe fuclin Hart is better than James or Green is just beyond me. i mean...FFS...there isn't even an argument for me. I don't get it. Capello made a meal of this selection and he'll get punished for it. His first real decision and, in my Cookie voice, "he bottled it."
It's not even a fucking debate.
cheers
i'd be surprised if anyone saw all the West Ham, Birmingham and Portsmouth games.
Personally i prefer Hart to the others, but that is not the point, he has no experience with the team and no experience at this level. In my view it wouldn't be a wise choice to pick him and not fair on the team or Joe.
Hart will likely play in the build up to the Euro qualifyers and build a relationship with the team and gain the experience to be 1st choice everytime. But now is not the time
King Kev wrote:Every Premier League game has cameras at it, if Capello didn't at least watch extended highlights of each game involving a potential England squad member then he should be sacked.brite blu sky wrote:DoomMerchant wrote:brite blu sky wrote:I think a lot of people are missing the point here.. goalkeepers are different to outfield players in the sense there is no cover for them.. they are as it were totally on their own. if an outfield player gets dropped it could be for all sorts of reasons.. ie a different set up or system. The goalkeeper is the goalkeeper. Capello has made a pigs ear of the selection process, not naming or determining his first choice.. it was plain wrong. The only caveat being perhaps James wasn't fit in recent weeks. The set up should have been solidified. James as first choice. Green as his back up and Joe as the rookie being there to learn and gain experience as understudy.
James has to be 1st choice as he is the only goalkeeper with experience, he is not clearly worse than the other two.. ie no-one stands out as superior. As for Joe, while as City fans we would want him to be no1.. he is an absolute rookie at this level and to throw him in under the pressure that exists could do a lot of harm to his career if he made a blunder. The other important factor is the defence and team need to know who they have got.. and they need to know them, so that any shortcomings are played around and dealt with. It is a total joke that it appears Capello was still experimenting and making his mind up as late as last week. Bad management imo.
How can anyone who watched the last season of Premier League football not think that Joe fuclin Hart is better than James or Green is just beyond me. i mean...FFS...there isn't even an argument for me. I don't get it. Capello made a meal of this selection and he'll get punished for it. His first real decision and, in my Cookie voice, "he bottled it."
It's not even a fucking debate.
cheers
i'd be surprised if anyone saw all the West Ham, Birmingham and Portsmouth games.
Personally i prefer Hart to the others, but that is not the point, he has no experience with the team and no experience at this level. In my view it wouldn't be a wise choice to pick him and not fair on the team or Joe.
Hart will likely play in the build up to the Euro qualifyers and build a relationship with the team and gain the experience to be 1st choice everytime. But now is not the time
DoomMerchant wrote:King Kev wrote:Every Premier League game has cameras at it, if Capello didn't at least watch extended highlights of each game involving a potential England squad member then he should be sacked.brite blu sky wrote:DoomMerchant wrote:brite blu sky wrote:I think a lot of people are missing the point here.. goalkeepers are different to outfield players in the sense there is no cover for them.. they are as it were totally on their own. if an outfield player gets dropped it could be for all sorts of reasons.. ie a different set up or system. The goalkeeper is the goalkeeper. Capello has made a pigs ear of the selection process, not naming or determining his first choice.. it was plain wrong. The only caveat being perhaps James wasn't fit in recent weeks. The set up should have been solidified. James as first choice. Green as his back up and Joe as the rookie being there to learn and gain experience as understudy.
James has to be 1st choice as he is the only goalkeeper with experience, he is not clearly worse than the other two.. ie no-one stands out as superior. As for Joe, while as City fans we would want him to be no1.. he is an absolute rookie at this level and to throw him in under the pressure that exists could do a lot of harm to his career if he made a blunder. The other important factor is the defence and team need to know who they have got.. and they need to know them, so that any shortcomings are played around and dealt with. It is a total joke that it appears Capello was still experimenting and making his mind up as late as last week. Bad management imo.
How can anyone who watched the last season of Premier League football not think that Joe fuclin Hart is better than James or Green is just beyond me. i mean...FFS...there isn't even an argument for me. I don't get it. Capello made a meal of this selection and he'll get punished for it. His first real decision and, in my Cookie voice, "he bottled it."
It's not even a fucking debate.
cheers
i'd be surprised if anyone saw all the West Ham, Birmingham and Portsmouth games.
Personally i prefer Hart to the others, but that is not the point, he has no experience with the team and no experience at this level. In my view it wouldn't be a wise choice to pick him and not fair on the team or Joe.
Hart will likely play in the build up to the Euro qualifyers and build a relationship with the team and gain the experience to be 1st choice everytime. But now is not the time
i believe he was referring to us fans. I didn't see all of them, but i saw more than a few of each from all 3...Just look at how Birmingham performed...and you can tell me that maybe Hart had a better back 4 than the others, but even if you'd agree he did then he worked well with them just like he'd work well with the back four for England. For me it's an easy choice, and i'm not just speaking with blue-tinged optics, but dispassionately as someone who follows the Prem in general pretty closely. No brainer and Don Fab fucked up. He rode his luck and lost.
cheers
Beefymcfc wrote:There are a few points that I'd like to raise beginning with the fact that if Green hadn't have fucked up, we would've won the game. Watching all the qualifiers and friendlies, it was clear to see that the back four had no real confidence in Green's and James' abilities; they seemed to be worried about every aspect of the keeping. However, when Joe came on in the last 2 friendlies, the back four seemed to have total confidence and we were a better team for him being on the field. What winds me up is that you've got Green who nearly went down with West Ham and James who did go down with Portsmouth, able to be considered in front of a player who became Brums Player of the Year and help them into a very creditable position in their first year in the Prem. Fair enough, he hasn't got that International experience but when you consider that first and foremost the ability to be able to stop goals going in the net is a pre-requisite, then why would anyone opt for James or Green, what have they actually achieved in their own playing careers?
So, on the goalkeeper front, I'd have no hestitation in giving Joe the jersey, not because I am biased but because he is the one who has the form and moreover, the trust of the other players.
Another point I'd like to raise is Ledley King and Harry Redknapp. This is a sore subject for me because I honestly feel that these 2 could've really fucked our chances up. I distinctly remember Harry talking up Ledley's chances of going to the World Cup and specifically said that he could play in all games aslong as he's rested inbetween. Ledley then went on to play 3 games in 10 days proving that his knee's could handle it and gave him a pass for Fabio to pick him. Looking back, it is plain to see that Ledley would not be able to hack the pace as he's not been able to string 3 games together for quite a while, and I'd suggest that Ledley was probably taken injections just to force is way into the England squad.
So, on the defender front, I'd have gone for Dawson even before Rio, as we all know how injury prone these 2 are. And when you consider Dawson's form this season, he has been immense for them and when I've watched their games he has shown excellent ability as well as very good leadership qualities which should have given him an automatic place, not a last minute call-up.
My last point has to be on the Heskey situation, why is he on the pitch? OK, he can hold the ball up blah blah blah, but his job is to score goals surely, otherwise he may as well be a midfielder. Using 2 people for only one to score is far from ideal but if Fabio decided to put Crouch up there from the start, then at least he can do both and he'd allow Rooney to actually get up with play.
Luckily, we have 5 days now to get things right and I'm just hoping Fabio has learnt from his mistakes. Let's just hope he's got the balls to drop people that are not up to the task, just as he did when telling Terry he's lost his captaincy.
brite blu sky wrote:James as first choice. Green as his back up and Joe as the rookie being there to learn and gain experience as understudy.
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