HUGHES RUINED THE ACADEMY SAYS CASSELL

[mcfc1632]

...but it is a bit like fishing - you cast your net..... or (more accurately in this case) you make the fish come into your swim...

Any team could have produced Rooney - he is (unfortuately) just that good - he would have made it if discovered at Preston or Tranmere rather than Everton - these players are the 'gold nuggets' occasionally unearthed - and somewhat 'break the pattern'

Looking backwards - I think that its is clear that our 'previous' academy was as good as any - for its purpose and budget

Looking forwards - you will see that the new man in charge talks a lot about being the 'place people want to come' - at first glance these might seem to be 'obvious' words to say - but throughout life parents make decisions on where to steer their kids - from pre-school to University based on reputation / resluts etc.

In a world where so many kids want to become footballers - If CITY become the place renowned to provide most success - and provide other support (money, lodgings, eductaion etc) then the parents of the future Ronneys will probably look to place their children with us - with other academies beoming a second choice only if our intake is full

Add that to the 'active' approach that is likely to be taken - with scouts out there looking for the talents - and I think that a few years from now we will be 'reaping' a crop - and every year thereafter

[Chinners]

anyone have a list of the 20 odd(prob close to 30 now?) player that played? i thought it was/is highly successful at the time, whether we produced a top class talent or not. At the end of the day whos to say ireland,weiss or sturridge(even cunningham or the new lads coming in) wont become top class?SWP has medals and england caps, compare us to any other academy in the country of the last ten years and id say weve produced the most talent. Thats a success in my opinion

Here you go fella ...

Academy Graduates Thus Far: (32)

•Shaun Wright-Phillips: City, 19 v Burnley, August 1999
•Terry Dunfield: Shrewsbury Town, 19 v Chelsea, May 2001
•Chris Shuker: Tranmere Rovers, 19 v Notts County, September 2001
•Dickson Etuhu: Fulham, 19 v Birmingham City, September 2001
•Leon Mike: Retired, 19 v Portsmouth, November 2001
•Chris Killen: Middlesbrough, 20 v Rotherham United, November 2001
•Tyrone Mears: Burnley, 19 v Nottingham Forest, March 2002
•Joey Barton: Newcastle United, 21 v Bolton Wanderers, April 2003
•Stephen Jordan: Burnley, 21 v Bolton Wanderers, April 2003
•Willo Flood: Middlesbrough, 18 v TNS, August 2003
•Glenn Whelan: Stoke City, 19 v TNS, August 2003
•Stephen Elliott: Preston North End, 20 v Bolton, February 2004
•Bradley Wright-Phillips: Plymouth, 19 v Barnsley, September 2004
•Nedum Onouha: City, 18 v Arsenal, October 2004
•Jonathan D'Laryea: Mansfield Town, 19 v Arsenal, October 2004
•Lee Croft: Derby County, 19 v Bolton Wanderers, March 2005
•Stephen Ireland: City, 19 v Bolton Wanderers, September 2005
•Micah Richards: City, 17 v Arsenal, October 2005
•Ishmael Miller: West Brom, 19 v Wigan Athletic, March 2006
•Michael Johnson: City, 18 v Wigan Athletic, October 2006
•Daniel Sturridge: Chelsea, 17 v Reading, February 2007
•Kasper Schmeichel: Notts County, 19 v West Ham, August 2007
•Shaleum Logan: Tranmere (loan), 19 v Bristol City, August 2007
•Kelvin Etuhu: Cardiff City (loan),19 v Norwich City, September 2007
•Ched Evans: Sheffield United, 18 v Norwich City, September 2007
•Sam Williamson: Wrexham, 20 v Portsmouth, April 2008
•Vladimír Weiss: Bolton (loan), 19 v Bolton Wanderers, May 200
•Dedryck Boyata: City, 19 v Middlesbrough, January 2010
•Abdisalam Ibrahim: City, 18 v Scunthorpe United, January 2010
•Greg Cunningham: City, 18 v Scunthorpe United, January 2010
•Alex Nimely: City, 18 v Burnley, April 2010

http://man-city-issues.blogspot.com/201 ... s-far.html

[Vhero]

At the end of the day has the academy produce any top 4 quality players in the last 10 years or so?? I don't see a problem with a revamp to get even better quality players we are moving up in the world and so should our academy. I shall add though with the amount of quality players we have got from there if it gets better imagine what we will get from it in the future? Out owner just doesn't want us to turn into the next Chelsea. He has seen what's happened over there and is trying to avoid it at all costs. He doesn't mind pumping millions in now but he doesn't want to pump a hundred million every year.

[btajim]

Jim Cassell is the only man who gets "sacked" from a job yet is allowed to help appoint his own replacement. The Guy is still employed by City!

It was these lies that ruined the quality of debate under Hughes' tenure.

[Wooders]

Whilst I doubt more than an handful of the 28 or so graduates so far would get near next seasons first team we have produced a few top class players:

SWP
Johnson
Ireland
Onouha
Richards
Sturridge
Weiss

However most of the above plus many of the journeymen seem to have had attitude problems at some point. JC used to regularly bang on about how we paid attention to more than just football, well in that respect I would say the academy failed big time. On the football side we seem to specialise in inconsistency.

On reflection it would appear that what was good was the initial scouting rather than the coaching/guidance

Also even the most staunch supporter of Cassell would have to agree that is not exactly a "World Class" output of players - all of them are pretty average imo with some showing signs of promise

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

For instance, NQDP thought Cassell was more important than the manager (which I disagreed with BTW), so I'm sure he was peaved when Jim moved to pastures new, whereas I don't feel he was the best in the world at what he did so I didn't really care TBH.

I didn't say Cassell was more important to Club than manager. I said he had been miles more important to club than Hughes. Cassell's work helped to save this Club of ours. What did Hughes ever do to help this club stay afloat?

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

For instance, NQDP thought Cassell was more important than the manager (which I disagreed with BTW), so I'm sure he was peaved when Jim moved to pastures new, whereas I don't feel he was the best in the world at what he did so I didn't really care TBH.

I didn't say Cassell was more important to Club than manager. I said he had been miles more important to club than Hughes. Cassell's work helped to save this Club of ours. What did Hughes ever do to help this club stay afloat?

Signed Tevez.

How did Tevez signing help to keep the club going?

To even try to argue that Hughes has been more important to this Club than Cassell is pure madness. Simple as that.

[btajim]

I didn't say Cassell was more important to Club than manager. I said he had been miles more important to club than Hughes. Cassell's work helped to save this Club of ours. What did Hughes ever do to help this club stay afloat?

As usual, you're twisting everything and setting the bar too high for a fair response. Although I do recall Hughes preventing Ireland from being sold to Sunderland and not allowing Corluka to leave until he knew he could find a replacement. Who knows where we'd be had Thaksin Shinawatra not found a buyer!

A very reliable source tells me that Jim Cassell wanted to retire after so many years producing a couple of good players from the Academy but City persuaded him to stay at the Club by offering him another (less stressful) role. He is still employed by Manchester City.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

I didn't say Cassell was more important to Club than manager. I said he had been miles more important to club than Hughes. Cassell's work helped to save this Club of ours. What did Hughes ever do to help this club stay afloat?

As usual, you're twisting everything and setting the bar too high for a fair response. Although I do recall Hughes preventing Ireland from being sold to Sunderland and not allowing Corluka to leave until he knew he could find a replacement. Who knows where we'd be had Thaksin Shinawatra not found a buyer!

A very reliable source tells me that Jim Cassell wanted to retire after so many years producing a couple of good players from the Academy but City persuaded him to stay at the Club by offering him another (less stressful) role. He is still employed by Manchester City.

Errr..... it wasn't me brought this up

[btajim]

Errr..... it wasn't me brought this up

Was it not you who hit the reply button and made a response? After Hughes was appointed, you found anything you could to use against him. Jim Cassell being a prime example. Uncle Jim is still here, Friend.

The Title of this thread is ridiculous, though. Misleading.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Errr..... it wasn't me brought this up

Was it not you who hit the reply button and made a response? After Hughes was appointed, you found anything you could to use against him. Jim Cassell being a prime example. Uncle Jim is still here, Friend.

The Title of this thread is ridiculous, though. Misleading.

At the time, the point wasn't so much it being Hughes. Had Mancini or Sven or anyone else done the same to super well functioning Academy and one of the best Academy directors in the world, I would've been fuming. It's only Hughes fanatics who wanted to see it as anti-Hughes as such. It was anti-destruction of the only part of the Club that is operating well (at the time).

[Slim]

So to sum up this thread, NQDP=hughes bad, OD=hughes good.

Thank god you guys have found new ground on which to have the same argument.

[btajim]

At the time, the point wasn't so much it being Hughes. Had Mancini or Sven or anyone else done the same to super well functioning Academy and one of the best Academy directors in the world, I would've been fuming. It's only Hughes fanatics who wanted to see it as anti-Hughes as such. It was anti-destruction of the only part of the Club that is operating well (at the time).

That's open to debate. Missing targets, Tottenham beating us on our own turf, Cup exits, unpopular training regimes and signing Vieira etc. All things Hughes would've been crucified for.

There's still very little evidence to suggest that Hughes directly forced Jim Cassell out of the Academy. Had the Guy been humiliated by the "sacking" then there's no chance that he'd have accepted another job with the responsibility of setting up a new Academy in Abu Dhabi. It just doesn't add up. It's far more logical to believe that he wanted to retire after his time at the Academy but he was such an influence that City found him a new job to keep him at the Club.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

At the time, the point wasn't so much it being Hughes. Had Mancini or Sven or anyone else done the same to super well functioning Academy and one of the best Academy directors in the world, I would've been fuming. It's only Hughes fanatics who wanted to see it as anti-Hughes as such. It was anti-destruction of the only part of the Club that is operating well (at the time).

That's open to debate. Missing targets, Tottenham beating us on our own turf, Cup exits, unpopular training regimes and signing Vieira etc. All things Hughes would've been crucified for.

There's still very little evidence to suggest that Hughes directly forced Jim Cassell out of the Academy. Had the Guy been humiliated by the "sacking" then there's no chance that he'd have accepted another job with the responsibility of setting up a new Academy in Abu Dhabi. It just doesn't add up. It's far more logical to believe that he wanted to retire after his time at the Academy but he was such an influence that City found him a new job to keep him at the Club.

See, that is not quite true.

[btajim]

See, that is not quite true.

It's just gossip and speculation.

We're going round in circles here because you're not answering any of my questions. i.e. Who gets pushed out of a job yet helps recruit their replacement? Who gets humilated after so many years service yet then takes another job with the same employer?

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

See, that is not quite true.

It's just gossip and speculation.

We're going round in circles here because you're not answering any of my questions. i.e. Who gets pushed out of a job yet helps recruit their replacement? Who gets humilated after so many years service yet then takes another job with the same employer?

Why would I answer your questions when you label everything as speculation?

[btajim]

Why would I answer your questions when you label everything as speculation?

Because I answer yours?

It's so, so unlikely that Cassell was forced out given how City publicised his new job etc. It's also true that Hughes was out playing Golf on behalf of the Academy when the Abu Dhabi takeover was a reality. You'd be surprised how much business is done on the Golf Course.