Managerial Options

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Ok. I've been reading what some people have had to say about Mancini and have thought this through. It is well known fact that I like Mancini and think he is the man to take us to new heights given time. However there are lot of people who seem to think that provided he doesn't get us short term success of reaching 4th he should be sacked. So I think it would be sensible to analyse what we may or may not have in offer.

There are of course two basic routes we could go. Either sacking Mancini or giving him a real crack at the whip. If it's the first option, which we are going to study in this topic, we will face the question "who then". The way we are as a club right now, it's very limited pool where we can choose from.

Now some people talk about Mancini like he is some sort of Italian version Graeme Souness, obviously people who follow very little football outside City. Truth is though, whether you like him or not, that he is one of the most succesfull young managers in the world. So what would we have in offer if we sacked Mancini.

A) Mourinho. Popular choice and probably the most clever and succesfull manager around. However, despite how clever we think might we are tossing his name around, supporters of EVERY top club want him as their next manager. There are other rich clubs out there and where ever he goes next, he wants package that is ready for the very top immediately. Mourinho as a manager is no wheeler-dealer but more of a training ground coach and tactician. He'd leave Marwood do the building part and who honestly thinks Marwood is capable of doing that? And then there's the fact, which even the most staunch Mourinho fan would admit, that he'd only stay MAX three seasons with us. He has himself admitted that he doesn't like to be stuck in one place for a long time.

B) Young British up and coming talent. Ah, the mystic talent we always covet, except that no one can actually name one. IF there were one available I'd fully back this but I can only see two, O'Neill and Moyes, and there are HUGE question marks over whether either of them could deal with really top talent. O'Neill seems more likely of the two, being probably the most intelligent manager around, but he is "win at all cost" manager and ohuge chunk of ur supporters want to be entertained as well as being succesfull. Moyes is old school "gaffer" type in training ground (his tactics are actually more forward thinking that most people give him credit for) and there are GIANT question marks how well he'd deal with inevitable primadonnas we'd have as a top club. Also Moyes has winning experience of grand fuck all. Only O'Neill would for me be suitable candidate at this stage. Behind those two there's HUUUUUUUUGE gap and next best group of managers (where Hughes belongs in my opinion by the way) has no one who could be up for the job.

C) Experienced foreign manager. In this group we are looking for someone with winning pedigree in top clubs and clear vision of how his teams should be set up. A quick fix route. Unfortunately, no matter how hard I think I can only see one realistic name on this group, Louis van Gaal. Unfortunately he seems to love working in Bayern where he seems to have real freedom to do things his way and is building a squad towards future success. Other names here would be Hiddink, who isn't interested coming into club management and perhaps Ancellotti who is already in big job. Again, after those the talent takes a nose dive.

D) Experienced English manager. Exactly the same demands as for experienced foreing manager. No one simply fits the bill. Harry is closest thing but honestly does someone actually think Redknapp would provide sustained success. He is ALWAYS looking for that good deal and seems to enjoy that side of game even more than actual management. Also his career is really patchy. Hodginson seems to be the flavour of the month and he is doing great job as Fulham manager but I've followed his career more closely than probably anyone here as first in Sweden and then as Finland manager. He is too old and isn't really clever enough for REALLY big job. AND he said that one of the most important things for him as a manager is that he is comfortable with his job. He'd be million miles from comfort zone as City manager.....certainly as long as he hadn't won anything. Which by the way brings the fact that he has no experience of winning anything in top level.

So the way I see it, we'd have two options Mourinho or O'Neill. Only O'Neill of those two would be likely to take up the offer. I think people should stop underestimating what we have in Mancini. Even with his weaknesses he STILL looks one of the best options around for us.

[avoidconfusion]

Would only accept a switch of managers if Mourinho was the replacement.

I don't rate MON or Moyes that much, for me they fall into the same category as Hughes, doing a good job at their current club, but would be out of their depth at City.

I don't see any other foreign coach bar Guardiola (who signed a new contract with Barcelona) and maybe Hiddink (who signed up for the Turkey job) who would be good enough.

And managers like Hiddink and Wenger are too old now in my opinion to bring change to this club.

If our decision makers should chose to sack Mancini anyhow and bring in someone else other than Mourinho I would be fucking livid.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Would only accept a switch of managers if Mourinho was the replacement.

I don't rate MON or Moyes that much, for me they fall into the same category as Hughes, doing a good job at their current club, but would be out of their depth at City.

I don't see any other foreign coach bar Guardiola (who signed a new contract with Barcelona) and maybe Hiddink (who signed up for the Turkey job) who would be good enough.

And managers like Hiddink and Wenger are too old now in my opinion to bring change to this club.

If our decision makers should chose to sack Mancini anyhow and bring in someone else other than Mourinho I would be fucking livid.

I let Guardiola out of consideration for numerous of reasons. He is Barcelona boy through and through and debatable he'd ever be real success elsewhere. he has been groomed to that system (think of Liverpool's Boot Room). He doesn't really speak English. He doesn't really play kind of football that would suit England (although they are best team to watch since Arsenal invincibles).

[King Kev]

I would like to see Mancini given a full season and allowed to sign some players of his choice. Then maybe we can make an informed decision on him. Half a season with somebody else's players is not really good grounds on which to decide.

If he were to go then we would need a manager with a proven track record. Somebody who has proved in the past that he is capable of winning things rather than somebody who has never won anything.

[The Man In Blue]

no one (or very few) people want him sacked - i for one would like to see the progress we were all told would occur, when in reality we are no better off at all then when you-know-who got the chop.

6th, with a game in hand.

still, i won't want him sacked even if we finish 6th. he needs a summer at least - whether he will get that is uncertain however.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

no one (or very few) people want him sacked - i for one would like to see the progress we were all told would occur, when in reality we are no better off at all then when you-know-who got the chop.

6th, with a game in hand.

still, i won't want him sacked even if we finish 6th. he needs a summer at least - whether he will get that is uncertain however.

Hmmmmm...... you could be right. Added a poll about it on other topic. It has certainly been hinted few times over past months but maybe that has simply been (over?)reaction to individual results.

[mcfc1632]

"....I think people should stop underestimating what we have in Mancini. Even with his weaknesses he STILL looks one of the best options around for us."

Don't know what you have been reading - most comments that could be seen as negative towards Mancini seem to be comments about specific tactics given against a background of overwhelming support - the only comments I have seen are those stating 'reservations' - well how can that be seen has 'underestimating' or critical.

Some of the cheerleaders of the hate-Hughes campaign seem to want to suggest that there is some anti-Mancini movement - which seems to exist only in their minds - we rational posters are just pro-CITY - that means we are pulling for Mancini to succeed whilst able to comment where specific mistakes are made - is that not what forums are for?

(anyway 6th was a target stated at the start of the season - so why should someone be sacked?)

[Blue Since 76]

I asked a similar question in about the November of Hughes' first season. I didn't rate Hughes and didn't want him as our manager, HOWEVER, once he was in charge, you have to look realistically at the options to decide if there is someone who could be better.

Mancini's name was mentioned at the time and my concern was that for every Mourinho, who could come into the league and look like he'd been here his whole life, there is a Ramos or a Paul Le Guen - a manager with great pedigree in one country who looks hopeless in another.

Now Mancini hasn't been that bad, considering it's his first job in England. His negative tactics are frustrating the hell out of me, but I'm hoping that's because he doesn't trust our defence (and I don't trust half of them either). I also think Italian and European is generally a bit more cagey early on - find the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition before going for it, it's just that it takes us too long to kick up a gear at times. He mentioned when we joined that we were short of options in central midfield and I think we can all see what a difference a fit Michael Johnson (or a replacement) would make, both defensively and, perhaps more importantly, in driving the ball forwards when he gets it.

I think Mancini deserves at least the summer window to try and bring in the type of players he wants for his system. If we are still playing the same way in September, I'll help write the banners, but for now, give him chance to get rid of some of the freeloaders and bring his own team in.

PS - Roberto, if you're reading this, please attack in the next 3 games. I know Toure can't defend, De Jong can't pass forwards and we'll probably have an embryo in net, but just go for it - trust me, it'll work.

[btajim]

A) Mourinho. Popular choice and probably the most clever and succesfull manager around. However, despite how clever we think might we are tossing his name around, supporters of EVERY top club want him as their next manager. There are other rich clubs out there and where ever he goes next, he wants package that is ready for the very top immediately. Mourinho as a manager is no wheeler-dealer but more of a training ground coach and tactician. He'd leave Marwood do the building part and who honestly thinks Marwood is capable of doing that? And then there's the fact, which even the most staunch Mourinho fan would admit, that he'd only stay MAX three seasons with us. He has himself admitted that he doesn't like to be stuck in one place for a long time.

I think it's a conundrum with Mourinho. He'd only come if we're in the Champions League next season yet Mancini deserves another season if we finish in 4th.

If Marwood isn't capable of doing his Job then he should leave immediately regardless of who he is supporting. Cook just found a Job for his old Mate.

[Ted Hughes]

In discussions about Mancini I pretty much found myself making a strong case for Mourinho. I don't even like Mourinho. I don't like the bullshit that comes with him but he does seem to be a class above as a manager & has proved it. Personally I'd rather keep Mancini for now even though I hate watching most of his football. I'll just hope he goes down the road I like & attacks.

I think Mancini has the ability to win the title with City. I also think many decent managers, including Hughes, have the ability to win the title with City because we have the resources to allow them to rectify their mistakes, which is the main reason Ferguson has had the success at OT. He's dropped 100's of bollocks over the years but been left to fix them, which he has & he's grown as a manager, as the rags have grown. If we sack someone half way through, we're left with a half built team & mistakes that need rectifying. The next bloke may make a different set of mistakes & fail to rectify some of the original ones or make them worse.

Even if such a bloke wins the title though, can they build the kind of confidence into the club so we KEEP doing it & we win the Champ's league? Can they make us into the world's top club? To breed that confidence into us from top to bottom?

As I mentioned in another thread the other thing that Ferguson has imo is a stronger image/personality than people like Mancini & Hughes & if you imagine which of the 3 you would expect to get the best performance out of a player & a club, he would win hands down. Mourinho is the same. That confidence spreads through their clubs. The only British manager in which I see potentially a similar thing is Moyes & he's quietly transformed Everton from a formula team to a football team this season. He's gone up a level. In comparison, ONeil has charisma but builds Leicester wherever he goes. Moyes has shown real ability & ran rings round Mancini twice with 2 different game plans. Mancini tried to counter it & was taken apart twice even with a team full of better players. If Mancini is good tactically (which I'm not convinced about) then Moyes is at least as good.

Moyes has never won anything though so it would only make sense to replace Mancini with a proven man.

Mourinho is head & shoulders the outstanding candidate, I'm sure the board feel the same & I'm sure he'll be in the job IF he wants it. I recon they've set the club up for him & he's the real reason Hughes was sacked. He may have already turned it down though, in which case they'll surely stick with Mancini for next season. Mancini would stay for me anyway but it's not up to me.

[Tokyo Blue]

I'd fucking hate to see david moyes managing City. I think I'd go off and support Bury for a bit.

[Mike J]

i like mancini and really want him to do well. but as ive said in another thread the boring football and silly tactics need to stop. he has seen our potential when we attack. also his job isnt being helped with all these stoies of dressing room unrest.

if they are true then players such as bellamy should fucking grow up and get behind the manager or sod off if he doesnt like it.

id only like to see a change of manager now is if mourinho was 100% available.

[Ted Hughes]

I'd fucking hate to see david moyes managing City. I think I'd go off and support Bury for a bit.

I don't like him either but I hold my hands up about his performance this season at Everton. They're not just parking the bus & waiting for scraps away from home (like they were & like we often do) they're playing counter attacking football away & mixing it with power football at home, with a team of overachieving players.

The way they played at the Emirates was like watching the team City should have been. They looked a class above us.

[Slim]

I'd fucking hate to see david moyes managing City. I think I'd go off and support Bury for a bit.

Go shakers, right there with you.

Right now I believe Mancini can take us forward but I am fucked if I can think of a replacement that really sparks as an improvement. Like it or hate it, it is clear to see the impact he has had on the squad and while he has lacked the mettle in some games, he has shown an ability to patiently and methodically unlock teams we should be beating instead of bashing his head against the wall and stalemating the game.

[lets all have a disco]

I'd let Mancini sign some of his own players and give him a season.

BUT,We need to stop being shit scared in big games and bottling it we should go for it weve proven were a better side when we ATTACK.

[mcfc1632]

I'd let Mancini sign some of his own players and give him a season.

BUT,We need to stop being shit scared in big games and bottling it we should go for it weve proven were a better side when we ATTACK.

Agreed - it is a big concern that he can send that set of players out with a mindset that we are 2nd best to the team they are playing against in the PL - how does that mindset change next year - if you don't think your'e best you never will be

[Tokyo Blue]

I'd let Mancini sign some of his own players and give him a season.

BUT,We need to stop being shit scared in big games and bottling it we should go for it weve proven were a better side when we ATTACK.

Agree. I think he might do that when he has players in that he knows and has chosen himself. I hope so. Sometimes it is hard to watch us.

I'd keep him - three years a manager needs - but if he goes, please Messrs Marwood and Cook, FFS, don't replace him with david fucking moyes.

[brite blu sky]

dont understand the premise for this thread apart from an obsession with talking about managers.

City need a period of stability so we can build the team up and develop a spirit and style.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

dont understand the premise for this thread apart from an obsession with talking about managers.

City need a period of stability so we can build the team up and develop a spirit and style.

Premise is to discuss what is out there. Even in purely hypothetical situation Mancini would be sacked IF, and that is still very much IF, we didn't make it to top 4.

It's easy to say that this and that manager should go, which has been mentioned few times, but at this stage I don't actually see many alternatives. I presonally think Mancini is close to as good as we can do.

Regarding your last sentence, you are of course right and that's what EVERYONE hopes. However, you still need the right man to do it. If you would've given Alan Ball billion pounds and 15 seasons we would've still won fuck all and in fact probably still be relegated. Now, I DO think Mancini is that man but there are people who are at very least sceptical and it would be interested to hear who they think would be better for us and why. This is a Manchester City message board. Sometimes we discuss about football matters here you know. Manager is part of a football team. Do the maths. We also make speculations which players would be best for us. What is this obsession with players?

[blues-clues]

Benitez?

Link here reckons we are after the waiter. Largest BOLLOX since "City chase Beckham".

http://www.footylatest.com/man-city-wan ... cini/13893

FFS why do they bother with this shite!

If he brings Torres he can come and serve the tea but apart from that.....no thanks.