More miserable than we used to be ...

[BobbyJ1956]

There was a thread on here a few days ago about the mood of City supporters in 1968 when they won the 1st Division championship and it was mostly agreed that there was a better feeling back then, both more optimistic and less impatient, and less apt to throw a fit after a defeat - witness the "I hate City" posts that appeared on Bluemoon after the derby. I was talking about this kind of thing to an old (old as me) Spurs fan today and then I come home, open the e-mails, and see this on the latest edition of mcivta:
"We have beaten Arsenal with considerable style twice this year, so we (being City) are all but guaranteed to blow it this time. Our impregnable fortress is leaking points, so losing to Spurs and or Villa should not be a major shock. Even WHAM are likely to beat us if the points are crucial to either side." Why do people post negative shite like this? Do they go out of the house and always expect to see a bus go sailing past the end of the road before they reach the stop? Do they get on a plane when they're going on holiday to a nice sunny destination and announce that it'll only rain when we get there, or the plane will crash, or we'll all get food poisoning? Miserable buggers. OK, if you're a pessimist that's how you are, but bloody shut up about it and don't spread your misery around. City are in the best position they've been in for 30 years and I am fucking sick of people moaning for the sake of moaning, there isn't a club in the land and none in Europe apart from Barcelona whose supporters think their future's brighter than City's right now. Maybe, as I think John68 suggested before, the negative attitude has become ingrained in younger fans who have known nothing but years of false dawns and disappointments, and maybe it will take several years of winning trophies before City have that confident, "we expect to win" attitude that the successful teams (you know who) have. But let's at least try to approach games in the spirit of thinking we have a real good chance, otherwise we might as well just stay in bed and pull the covers over us and say goodnight for ever.

[gillie]

There was a thread on here a few days ago about the mood of City supporters in 1968 when they won the 1st Division championship and it was mostly agreed that there was a better feeling back then, both more optimistic and less impatient, and less apt to throw a fit after a defeat - witness the "I hate City" posts that appeared on Bluemoon after the derby. I was talking about this kind of thing to an old (old as me) Spurs fan today and then I come home, open the e-mails, and see this on the latest edition of mcivta:
"We have beaten Arsenal with considerable style twice this year, so we (being City) are all but guaranteed to blow it this time. Our impregnable fortress is leaking points, so losing to Spurs and or Villa should not be a major shock. Even WHAM are likely to beat us if the points are crucial to either side." Why do people post negative shite like this? Do they go out of the house and always expect to see a bus go sailing past the end of the road before they reach the stop? Do they get on a plane when they're going on holiday to a nice sunny destination and announce that it'll only rain when we get there, or the plane will crash, or we'll all get food poisoning? Miserable buggers. OK, if you're a pessimist that's how you are, but bloody shut up about it and don't spread your misery around. City are in the best position they've been in for 30 years and I am fucking sick of people moaning for the sake of moaning, there isn't a club in the land and none in Europe apart from Barcelona whose supporters think their future's brighter than City's right now. Maybe, as I think John68 suggested before, the negative attitude has become ingrained in younger fans who have known nothing but years of false dawns and disappointments, and maybe it will take several years of winning trophies before City have that confident, "we expect to win" attitude that the successful teams (you know who) have. But let's at least try to approach games in the spirit of thinking we have a real good chance, otherwise we might as well just stay in bed and pull the covers over us and say goodnight for ever.

Quality post Bobbyj.And from me i think we will tomorrow and i think we will take 4th spot.

[aaron bond]

If Spurs lose tomorrow and we win our next 3 games, 4th place is ours.

We have hammered Arsenal twice already this season and they are missing a lot of key players, so we can definitely get a result there tomorrow. Our next 2 games are at home. We have a great record against Villa so we should win that. Spurs will be a tough one as they are a bogey team for us, but a win there will guarantee 4th place so there can be no great incentive for the players to put in a performance. Even if we draw then with Spurs, we'll still be ahead of them going into the final game (providing my other wishes come true!).

I'd rather be in this position than worrying about relegation, languishing in mid-table going nowhere or losing at home to Mansfield in the Auto Windscreens Trophy.

[john68]

Bobby Mate....fantastic post. Earlier in the week, this issue was discussed at a meal I had with oleder blues Kippax and Douglas, all of us from that era (I think Douglas lies about his age...) and dazby who, being from Oz has a different cultural viewpoint..(if OZ has any culture???)...:-)

Dazby said he was shocked at how fickle so many City fans seemed in their attitude at his 1st game (Brum 5-1) and the way so many left the ground prior to the end of the game.
Doug has posted on here that the negativity astounds him, given our present situation.
I have felt like a bloody missionary trying to converting pessimists and I know that Gillie has been just as frustrated and posted many times to try and lift heads.
Slim also has, to his credit, steamed into a few too, trying to get some bloody sense into some....and there are others.
Welcome aboard Bobby...you are not alone.

No and I don't understand it either.

[Paul68]

Bobby Mate....fantastic post. Earlier in the week, this issue was discussed at a meal I had with oleder blues Kippax and Douglas, all of us from that era (I think Douglas lies about his age...) and dazby who, being from Oz has a different cultural viewpoint..(if OZ has any culture???)...:-)

Dazby said he was shocked at how fickle so many City fans seemed in their attitude at his 1st game (Brum 5-1) and the way so many left the ground prior to the end of the game.
Doug has posted on here that the negativity astounds him, given our present situation.
I have felt like a bloody missionary trying to converting pessimists and I know that Gillie has been just as frustrated and posted many times to try and lift heads.
Slim also has, to his credit, steamed into a few too, trying to get some bloody sense into some....and there are others.
Welcome aboard Bobby...you are not alone.

No and I don't understand it either.

Quality John, well said. I am one of the silent majority at the mo due to some personal issues but things are changing on that front so hopefully I can get back to concentrating on city!
I also can never understand why the hell someone would leave before the end of the game... course it bloody hurts when we lose.. but you never - never - let the oppo fans know how much...
I too am very pissed off with negativity and it's excellent that these threads are starting up.
I am one of the lucky few to have seen and been there when city win silver and it's just about the best thing in the world.
keep the faith

[Bear60]

There was a thread on here a few days ago about the mood of City supporters in 1968 when they won the 1st Division championship and it was mostly agreed that there was a better feeling back then, both more optimistic and less impatient, and less apt to throw a fit after a defeat - witness the "I hate City" posts that appeared on Bluemoon after the derby. I was talking about this kind of thing to an old (old as me) Spurs fan today and then I come home, open the e-mails, and see this on the latest edition of mcivta:
"We have beaten Arsenal with considerable style twice this year, so we (being City) are all but guaranteed to blow it this time. Our impregnable fortress is leaking points, so losing to Spurs and or Villa should not be a major shock. Even WHAM are likely to beat us if the points are crucial to either side." Why do people post negative shite like this? Do they go out of the house and always expect to see a bus go sailing past the end of the road before they reach the stop? Do they get on a plane when they're going on holiday to a nice sunny destination and announce that it'll only rain when we get there, or the plane will crash, or we'll all get food poisoning? Miserable buggers. OK, if you're a pessimist that's how you are, but bloody shut up about it and don't spread your misery around. City are in the best position they've been in for 30 years and I am fucking sick of people moaning for the sake of moaning, there isn't a club in the land and none in Europe apart from Barcelona whose supporters think their future's brighter than City's right now. Maybe, as I think John68 suggested before, the negative attitude has become ingrained in younger fans who have known nothing but years of false dawns and disappointments, and maybe it will take several years of winning trophies before City have that confident, "we expect to win" attitude that the successful teams (you know who) have. But let's at least try to approach games in the spirit of thinking we have a real good chance, otherwise we might as well just stay in bed and pull the covers over us and say goodnight for ever.

Top post. We all get dissapointed with results and last weekend it all went wrong for us. But we must all stay positive and believe that we can nick that 4th spot . every radio station I listen to at the moment are bigging it up for Spurs and saying they will be playing champs league next season. It is up to us now to upset the applecart and there is absolutely no reason why we cant. C'MON CITY WE CAN DO THIS.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

There was a thread on here a few days ago about the mood of City supporters in 1968 when they won the 1st Division championship and it was mostly agreed that there was a better feeling back then, both more optimistic and less impatient, and less apt to throw a fit after a defeat - witness the "I hate City" posts that appeared on Bluemoon after the derby. I was talking about this kind of thing to an old (old as me) Spurs fan today and then I come home, open the e-mails, and see this on the latest edition of mcivta:
"We have beaten Arsenal with considerable style twice this year, so we (being City) are all but guaranteed to blow it this time. Our impregnable fortress is leaking points, so losing to Spurs and or Villa should not be a major shock. Even WHAM are likely to beat us if the points are crucial to either side." Why do people post negative shite like this? Do they go out of the house and always expect to see a bus go sailing past the end of the road before they reach the stop? Do they get on a plane when they're going on holiday to a nice sunny destination and announce that it'll only rain when we get there, or the plane will crash, or we'll all get food poisoning? Miserable buggers. OK, if you're a pessimist that's how you are, but bloody shut up about it and don't spread your misery around. City are in the best position they've been in for 30 years and I am fucking sick of people moaning for the sake of moaning, there isn't a club in the land and none in Europe apart from Barcelona whose supporters think their future's brighter than City's right now. Maybe, as I think John68 suggested before, the negative attitude has become ingrained in younger fans who have known nothing but years of false dawns and disappointments, and maybe it will take several years of winning trophies before City have that confident, "we expect to win" attitude that the successful teams (you know who) have. But let's at least try to approach games in the spirit of thinking we have a real good chance, otherwise we might as well just stay in bed and pull the covers over us and say goodnight for ever.

I can't see what is wrong with realistic approach. Spurs ARE in great form and home games against Spurs and Villa ARE hard. IF West Ham are fighting for their lives at home in last game of the season they COULD very well beat us (although personally I think their game suit us too well for us not to come back from there with anything but three points).

Those are the facts. Of course we CAN win all four games but it's going be bloody hard. Stating that FACT has nothing to do with people moaning and whining. In fact, it will make anyone look pretty silly to claim that it's easy ride to fourth spot. Making such FALSE claims has nothing to do withrealistic football conversations.

And yes, it will take years of sustained success to take this approach away as it will mean we have world class players and world class attitude in the squad. But until then remaining realistic yet quietly hopefull is the most sensible approach.

Going overboard is exactly what got sack to Sven for example. People were talking about cracking the top 4 around christmas which simply wasn't realistic. Same way there were people talking about mounting serious title challenge this season when we were going through a good un. Equally ridiculous. THEN these supposedly "optimistic" people start moaning about us not reaching the "targets" and out goes yet another manager or players confidence or whatever.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

I am probably labelled as more pessimistic than optimistic but I like to think I am more realistic than anything. ( agreeing with NQDP wow) When it comes to an individual match or a short term run of matches I still find I am fearing the worst too often.It's hard to shake off the effects of supporting City for so long I guess. I look at matches and can see how we can win but I can also see how it can go wrong.There is no doubt , no doubt at all we can beat Arsenal and given form , players available and the importance of the match I think we should beat them or at least come very very close. BUT the realist or fatalist in me worries that we might not turn up in the game or at least not until it is too late and we have given Arsenal room to get their confidence back.Too often we have started games cautiously and we have to get out of that habit.

But away from an individual match I couldnt be more positive about City in the long term.I am in the LythymBLue line of thinking that it was and still is a longer term project than many believed or accepted.We know the goal and will get there but there will be highs and lows along the way and there has to be that understanding and a patience shown all along.

Do the owners have that patience? Well I was surprised when they made the move that they did even though it was sort of understandable but now I am unsure what they will do next. I sincerely hope it isn't another change of manager as I like the idea of stability and Mancini is a good manager.I still remain unsure though whether he is the man to get us to the top just as I wasn't sure Hughes was but we surely have to give him time to find out.

[david yearsley]

More or less with NQDP and Doug on this one - short term realist , long term optimist - last weeks bottle job and the way Spurs tackled their two fixtures leaves me with nothing but hope, but it is a hope I shall cling to till the dying embers of this campaign have flickered their last.

[Paul68]

You know one of the best positives to come out of this tho? (IMHO)
City fans are actually getting pissed off cos we might not get 4th!
How fucking good is that?
I admit I would have been happy with 5th maybe 6th at the start of the season and build on to push hard next.
But here we are with a real real possibility of getting 4th by our own results.
That my friends is brilliant and even if we don't make 4th I will still be happy. Of course I'll be pissed off for a while and so will everyone I think.
but we will still be in europe and will definitely get top 4 next season
so bring it on - if we get it a year early (for me anyway) even better!

[brite blu sky]

bright blue sky all the way..

never understood nagativity.. critical analysis is a very important part of success, but negativity imo serves for nothing at all and is therefore a complete and utter waste of breath.

usually it says more about the person spouting it that what they spout imo.

[john68]

...and herein lies the difference....
We play the derby and take the cutious approach. We ensure that thr rags don't win and we fail to do that and drop the points. Fans in the stands try to create the right atmosphere but it a party is it? No carnival style...get behind the team...and scream 'em over the finishing line.

Spurs take the different approach and design both chelsea and Arsenal a new arsehole. Their fans are all singing all dancing and their confidence couldn't be higher.

I don't know what the next few games will bring but i sure as hell would swap attitudes with Spurs at this moment.

[Rag_hater]

No.
I'm not more miserable.
I think our older supporters are the ones who keep bringing up the supposed issue that the younger ones are more miserable when its not true.I think they just want to say things were better in the "good old days"

[edge275]

I think people are more realists than 'whingers'.

7 draws in a row mostly against inferior opposition isn't good enough and neither is losing THREE derbies in one season all by last minute goals. It's almost unprecedented and until that kind of shit stops so will people's perception of typical city which continues to weaken the morale and soul of your average supporter.

I know there's some people who say "We're improving, chill out!"

Of course we're improving! We've just spent approximately 200 million pound on buying top players (mostly off our rivals). The question you've got to ask is, have we improved enough in reflection to what we've spent and how other teams are doing?

I'd say barring a disastrous last few games we have. Even if we finish 5th we've been challenging for 4th pretty much all the way through (not so much in Hughes tenure).

The reason for people moaning in my opinion is what I mentioned at the beginning of this thread. The stupid fucks ups are still visible and most blues are still scarred from them. it's got to stop.

[Ted Hughes]

...and herein lies the difference....
We play the derby and take the cutious approach. We ensure that thr rags don't win and we fail to do that and drop the points. Fans in the stands try to create the right atmosphere but it a party is it? No carnival style...get behind the team...and scream 'em over the finishing line.

Spurs take the different approach and design both chelsea and Arsenal a new arsehole. Their fans are all singing all dancing and their confidence couldn't be higher.

I don't know what the next few games will bring but i sure as hell would swap attitudes with Spurs at this moment.

After a first half of standing around waiting for the rags to score, Spurs had a go at them after conceding & could easily have taken the points today but the rags had a go back & even minus Rooney, showed the Spurs defence for what it really is; shit. The 2nd half though was the way football should be played; 2 sides going at each other trying to win.

I'd like to think we will recognise when we play Spurs, that Adebayor, Tevez, Bellamy & Johnson should be able to do anything Berbatov, Nani, Valencia & Giggs can do. If we have to miss the champ's league, lets go down fighting & if we have to lose, then let's only lose out to a side that genuinely outplays us when we're going at them, not one that nicks a goal in a tactical shite, frightened, nothing game.

[BobKowalski]

Firmly in the optimistic camp. Win next 3 games we get CL and deserve CL football. We don't win them well no one to blame but ourselves. Either way the first full season with ADUG in charge has been bloody fantastic and it has given us a glimpse of the future and it is looking very, very good.

We are not a top side. Yet. The mentaility is not there. Yet.

But it is coming and it is coming fast.

[Grob]

The mandate set is 70 points.

So we need 7 out of the last 9 available.

After the last 2 games I cant see it happening.

So if we dont hit the target then we have failed.

When a points total is touted for success, things become black and white. There is no longer any grey.

[mcfc1632]

I find all this going on about people being negative a bit weird...

There are probably going to be about 3 age groups of supporters:

1/ those very recent or yet to be - they will become CITY fans because of our success - well they could well be just like the plastics at the swamp - critical at every point dropped because they have been fed a diet of repeated success (which I firmly believe will be the case from now on) - for me these new fans will have missed the 'real CITY'

2/ those in their late 20s / 30s who are fans because it is in their blood - handed down by parents - these will have had about 10 - 20 years watching CITY 'muddling through' - in that batch of teams that aspire to avoid relegation = success

3/ those in their 40s / 50s who will have 30 - 40 years of seeing the succession of managers - the total inconsistency - the journeys home after inexplicable performances - like me some of these might be old enough to remember the glory years - but if so - surely they also remember we were 'typical CITY' even then - remember the year Derby won the league?? 1972 I think - we were pissing it and then signed Rodders

What confuses me is that people in group 3 must have experienced loads of 'typical city' moments - but it is they that seem surprised that people still expect CITY to find new ways to fuck up

Why? - until we changed some of the fundamental culture at the club (including changing managers every few months) this was always going to continue - CITY make an art form out of fucking it up

Thinking like that - holding your breath whilst waiting for the next fuck up etc is just part of the reality of being a CITY fan - the good news is that I am convinced that will now change - if not this season then certainly next - and I for one will not miss it !!!! but until it does change - people being nervous does not surprise me