FAO John68 Re: Nagative Fans

[gillie]

I know the tinternet was'nt around back in 68 but where City fans as negative about our chances for the league then as we seem to be now for 4th spot and CL qualification.

[DoomMerchant]

i didn't think the club had been formed back in 1868.

that didn't sound very positive, did it?

cheers

[gillie]

i didn't think the club had been formed back in 1868.

that didn't sound very positive, did it?

cheers

NO NO NO NO NO AND DEFININATELY NOT.

[john68]

Great question Gillie mate and very topical. Today I had lunch with Dazby, Douglas and Kippax and the attitude of our fans was discussed at length.
The situation was very similar. We had been shit for a number of years, not quite as long as at present, but long enough for most of the younger fans not to remember much about our 1956 Cup win. We too honoured the City heroes of the past but like this present generation we were crying out for our own heroes. We were also under the cosh from the rags who had won the Cup in 63 and the League in 65 and 67 (if my memory serves me correctly). The rags were just as arrogant then as they are now.
The previous season we had met the set target of survival in Division 1, so despite the prophecy of Allison that we would double the number of goals scored and the number of points accumulated, actually winning the League was certainly not on my initial agenda.

I think the attitude of fans was vastly different. We considered it our DUTY to support the team. It was our duty to be louder than opposition fans and we made every effort to make sure we sang almost continuously in support of City.
If the opposition scored, we endeavoured to drown out their celebratory noise by immediately chanting. This was geared to outnoise them and also lift our team back into the game. Our repetoire of chants and songs was long, almost every player had his song or chant and there were seldon quiet periods when we created no noise. Please understand that I am not being judgemental, nor saying it was better then. I am merely reporting it as it was.

I think the biggest single difference was that our generation generally understood that if you wanted something, it had to be earned or worked for...hence our attitude to supporting our teams. Today, I believe many fans simply demand to be entertained. It may go some way to explaining why Eastlands has huge swathes of fans who never sing and why there is so much criticism when they feel they aren't being entertained.

I'll throw that viewpoint open to be debated Gillie. It is a sincere opinion.

[john68]

I have posted this seperately because it is a different issue that is relevant to the question you posed Mate.

Coverage of football in the 60s was almost non existant when compared to the present day. Nor was there any discernable cleb culture to the extent as it is now. Wages for players were also much lower and though far richer than the rest of the working class, footballers weren't paid so much that they lived on a different planet. The likes of Johnny Crossan, Jimmy Murray, Harry Dowd etc lived in semi detatched houses on the Brooklands estate and Dave Connor who played in the League winning team lived with his parents in a council house off Greenwood road in Wythenshawe.

The present media coverage has built fotballers into celebrity demi gods who are far removed in wages and lifestyles from those who support them. Maybe fans' are right to consider that they are so grossly overpaid that they should be able to entertain without a great need to be supported by singing.
The extent of media coverage now goes far beyond football and extends not only into players' private live but also the lives and careers of their WAGS. We see on this forum, threads discussing aspects of players lives that has little to do with the game and those threads are well posted on.
In the 60s. discussions about the game were far more limited, usually taking place in the pub, at work, in school or with a few mates. Forums like this now give fans access to unlimited discussion and debate and in far more depth and far more widely than ever before. The opportunity to vent the spleen is now vast and fans take that opportunity.

Again, I'll leave it open for discussion

[BobbyJ1956]

The admirable John and others of that era will have their own memories of the run-in in '68 but my recollection is of City doing one step forward and one back in the final weeks of the season. I think they'd gone top when they scored five against Fulham, then they beat U****d at O.T. But they lost at Leeds and were in third place behind both Leeds and the rags. I remember looking at the fixtures and seeing that the last two games of the season were away from home (Tottenham & Newcastle), so I think most City supporters weren't that optimistic about coming top. On the other hand City were not long out of Division Two, they'd had a good season, played nice football, and had a young team that was only going to get better. Also, there hadn't yet been the long series of false dawns that City have had over the last 10 (make it 20) years, so the feeling was that if winning the league didn't happen in 1968 it wouldn't be far off. It was a bit like my ambitions on the girl I most fancied, way out of my league, a stunner from a posh town down South, and nervous virgin that I was I felt that if I at least got a dance with her, maybe even a kiss and a bit of fumbling around, that would boost my confidence to do better later on with her rather plainer friend. In fact it was the stunner who unexpectedly took me to heaven. As for City, it wasn't so much what they did themselves that really convinced me they could win the league, it was when I went with a West Brom mate to see them play U****d at the Hawthorns one night near the end of the season, WBA put six past them and let City through into 1st place.

[john68]

Your recollection are quite corrct young Bobby....:-)...Hope this unlocks a few memories for you mate...:-)

1pts in the 1st 3 games...near the bottom
5 consecutive wins...pushed us up the league.
3 consecutive losses dropped us back down again.
11 games unbeaten...dropping only 3pts...back up again
2 consecutive losses....aaaaand down we went again.
7 unbeaten (only dropping 1pt)...beat the rags (A) and went top.
Colin Bell injured in the derby by Francis Burns
lost...won...lost...won...won...lost...drew...we seemed out of the race.
Beat Sheff Wed. Still out of it.
Beat Everton...while the rags got hit for six by West Brom...the door was open...and....all we had to do was...
Beat Spurs (A)...we did
Beat Newcastle...CHAMPIONS.

One step forward...then 1 back...all season long. I think we had a feeling of hope. But when it finally came down to the crunch and whether we could win the last 2 games, there was a feeling of "yeah!!! we can do this" I really don't remember any negativity. We always seemed to have hope.

[gillie]

Thanks John and also Bobby for answering my question.It seems the present team are doing it the same way one step forward and one back.

[Im_Spartacus]

Thanks John and also Bobby for answering my question.It seems the present team are doing it the same way one step forward and one back.

Yeah some very interesting answers there from John and Bobby. Shows how times have changed. We live in the "now" age, but not only that, we have been used to city fucking everything up for nearly 40 years now, so we have just got an ingrained losers attitude.

I fucking hate the rag supporters because of their arrogance, but perhaps after what they have achieved, their ridiculous blind faith in their team is rewarded more often than not, wheras out own bad attitide about city is similarly rewarded as often as not. It will take a lot of time and a number of trophies to change that

[Nick]

Great question Gillie mate and very topical. Today I had lunch with Dazby, Douglas and Kippax and the attitude of our fans was discussed at length.
The situation was very similar. We had been shit for a number of years, not quite as long as at present, but long enough for most of the younger fans not to remember much about our 1956 Cup win. We too honoured the City heroes of the past but like this present generation we were crying out for our own heroes. We were also under the cosh from the rags who had won the Cup in 63 and the League in 65 and 67 (if my memory serves me correctly). The rags were just as arrogant then as they are now.
The previous season we had met the set target of survival in Division 1, so despite the prophecy of Allison that we would double the number of goals scored and the number of points accumulated, actually winning the League was certainly not on my initial agenda.

I think the attitude of fans was vastly different. We considered it our DUTY to support the team. It was our duty to be louder than opposition fans and we made every effort to make sure we sang almost continuously in support of City.
If the opposition scored, we endeavoured to drown out their celebratory noise by immediately chanting. This was geared to outnoise them and also lift our team back into the game. Our repetoire of chants and songs was long, almost every player had his song or chant and there were seldon quiet periods when we created no noise. Please understand that I am not being judgemental, nor saying it was better then. I am merely reporting it as it was.

I think the biggest single difference was that our generation generally understood that if you wanted something, it had to be earned or worked for...hence our attitude to supporting our teams. Today, I believe many fans simply demand to be entertained. It may go some way to explaining why Eastlands has huge swathes of fans who never sing and why there is so much criticism when they feel they aren't being entertained.

I'll throw that viewpoint open to be debated Gillie. It is a sincere opinion.

Id love it if we could get some of that back . . ..

[Douglas Higginbottom]

Totally agree with John/Bobby's posts. I remember going to that Spurs match at WHL really believing we would win and the same for the final game at Newcastle but yes the season had plenty of ups and downs and although disappointed whenever we didn't win a game I don't recall ever feeling the need to slag off the team or a player.

Nowadays the negativity and the strength of it whenever we have a bad result is quite astounding and individuals are so often targeted whether a player or manager. I have been accused of being unhappy even if we win but I like to think of myself as a realist and I just don't go OTT whether good or bad. I don't know for sure but I think I was like that back then too.I might be younger than John but I sure as hell don't have as good a memory ( just thought I would get that in John).

[gillie]

Totally agree with John/Bobby's posts. I remember going to that Spurs match at WHL really believing we would win and the same for the final game at Newcastle but yes the season had plenty of ups and downs and although disappointed whenever we didn't win a game I don't recall ever feeling the need to slag off the team or a player.

Nowadays the negativity and the strength of it whenever we have a bad result is quite astounding and individuals are so often targeted whether a player or manager. I have been accused of being unhappy even if we win but I like to think of myself as a realist and I just don't go OTT whether good or bad. I don't know for sure but I think I was like that back then too.I might be younger than John but I sure as hell don't have as good a memory ( just thought I would get that in John).

Doug everyone is younger than John lol.

[Kiss_The_Goat]

Totally agree with John/Bobby's posts. I remember going to that Spurs match at WHL really believing we would win and the same for the final game at Newcastle but yes the season had plenty of ups and downs and although disappointed whenever we didn't win a game I don't recall ever feeling the need to slag off the team or a player.

Nowadays the negativity and the strength of it whenever we have a bad result is quite astounding and individuals are so often targeted whether a player or manager. I have been accused of being unhappy even if we win but I like to think of myself as a realist and I just don't go OTT whether good or bad. I don't know for sure but I think I was like that back then too.I might be younger than John but I sure as hell don't have as good a memory ( just thought I would get that in John).

To be honest I dont see and hear anywhere near the negativity from City fans outside this board. For whatever reason we have a lot of people on here who have a generally negative outlook and always seem to jump on players, the team and managers back at the slightest opportunity. I dont get it myself. I'd like to think that the majority of fans arent like that.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

Totally agree with John/Bobby's posts. I remember going to that Spurs match at WHL really believing we would win and the same for the final game at Newcastle but yes the season had plenty of ups and downs and although disappointed whenever we didn't win a game I don't recall ever feeling the need to slag off the team or a player.

Nowadays the negativity and the strength of it whenever we have a bad result is quite astounding and individuals are so often targeted whether a player or manager. I have been accused of being unhappy even if we win but I like to think of myself as a realist and I just don't go OTT whether good or bad. I don't know for sure but I think I was like that back then too.I might be younger than John but I sure as hell don't have as good a memory ( just thought I would get that in John).

To be honest I dont see and hear anywhere near the negativity from City fans outside this board. For whatever reason we have a lot of people on here who have a generally negative outlook and always seem to jump on players, the team and managers back at the slightest opportunity. I dont get it myself. I'd like to think that the majority of fans arent like that.

I don't get it either and I would hope the majority aren't like that. But there is a big number who are and it's not just on here. In fact I don't think it's realkly that bad on here compared to another forum which really shouldnt be mentioned.And I know there is plenty of abuse heard at games too when all is not going well.

[gillie]

Totally agree with John/Bobby's posts. I remember going to that Spurs match at WHL really believing we would win and the same for the final game at Newcastle but yes the season had plenty of ups and downs and although disappointed whenever we didn't win a game I don't recall ever feeling the need to slag off the team or a player.

Nowadays the negativity and the strength of it whenever we have a bad result is quite astounding and individuals are so often targeted whether a player or manager. I have been accused of being unhappy even if we win but I like to think of myself as a realist and I just don't go OTT whether good or bad. I don't know for sure but I think I was like that back then too.I might be younger than John but I sure as hell don't have as good a memory ( just thought I would get that in John).

To be honest I dont see and hear anywhere near the negativity from City fans outside this board. For whatever reason we have a lot of people on here who have a generally negative outlook and always seem to jump on players, the team and managers back at the slightest opportunity. I dont get it myself. I'd like to think that the majority of fans arent like that.

I don't get it either and I would hope the majority aren't like that. But there is a big number who are and it's not just on here. In fact I don't think it's realkly that bad on here compared to another forum which really shouldnt be mentioned.And I know there is plenty of abuse heard at games too when all is not going well.

Doug i was on the Arsenal forum mentioned by Slim in his thread and they rate us higher than some of our own supporters.

[DoomMerchant]

im not sure i understand all this "negativity" that is being alleged.

i can't remember the last time we took the pitch and i thought we were nailed on to lose. I feel like we're going to win every fuclin match...without a doubt.

cheers

[john68]

im not sure i understand all this "negativity" that is being alleged.

i can't remember the last time we took the pitch and i thought we were nailed on to lose. I feel like we're going to win every fuclin match...without a doubt.

cheers

Yeah but having found out from Florida Blue's informative post about you having Mickey Mouse, Goofy and Donald Duck for neighbours, we could sort'a expect that...:-)

I wonder, does Mickey Mouse brag about having the Doom Merchant living near him?

[King Kev]

I haven't witnessed any negativity about our chances of finishing 4th!?

[Slim]

I haven't witnessed any negativity about our chances of finishing 4th!?

See, told you to stop it or you'd go blind.

[King Kev]

I haven't witnessed any negativity about our chances of finishing 4th!?

See, told you to stop it or you'd go blind.

But I enjoy it!

Seriously though, apart form a few miserable fuclers on here I would say the vast majority of City fans are pretty upbeat about our chances.