Reasons to be cautious..

[brite blu sky]

i thought it might be interesting to make some comments about the way games seem to play out under Bob and if there was anything in that.


The team seem to consistently start cautiously, quiet often allowing ourselves to go 0-1 down before upping our game and attacking intent.

I am wondering how much this might have to do with Mancini wanting to play it cautiously while he looks at the opposition. I say this because it seems to be a pattern almost in every game, at home and away, also as Bobby has no direct experience of the teams he is coming up against. That coupled with the obvious reason that he is trying to change the team shape and mentality on the fly (while keeping us in the running for 4th ).

we are all a bit frustrated i think with this cautiousness, especially in home games and it is in looking for reasons why this should be that im thinking that it is quite deliberate by Bobby while he sees in real time what the oppo and their form players are all about on the day.

im sure it is not just this alone. But for a new manager coming in half way through a season it would be quite 'normal' for away games, but no so understandable for home games.

what do you rekon? is there any sense in this idea? ( bear in mind i think it happened a few times this season under the prev manager also.. is it just something to do with this squad? )

[Original Dub]

I dunno mate, to be honest, I thought we started a lot of the games at home reasonably brightly, but ten mins in reverted to defensive football...

Maybe its just a plan that is finally being put into proper practice, but I can't figure out Mancini's tactics so I'm not going to try to because everytime I think I have an idea, it gets turned upside down!

Lets see how we do against Sunderland and then the next home game and we'll see exactly how he operates, because I'm hopeful this was a turning point and his plan/style is now being enforced, while the "settling in" period is definitely over.

But I'll give you one "reason to be cautious" and not get too excited:

This is Manchester City.

[john@staustell]

I believe the bit about going 1-0 down is coincidence, in a manner of speaking. Like, it aint meant to happen. Mancini went nuts when Stoke scored their first goal after Bridge failed to tackle and let the ginger one cut inside. Similarly Kompany's error let Chelsea in.

When it is all going plan we wont let in that first goal, yet will pick off the teams more and more as the game goes on. It's a bit of a risky strategy (Sven tried it with poor players) because you need bloody good players and bloody good drilling. And if you do let in a goal, it obviously changes the whole attitude of the opposition.

But Bobby believes this is the way to go, it worked for him before and to be fair he has inherited some decent attacking players to do it.

[BobKowalski]

I think a lot of it is just Mancini seeing what the other team has to offer before committing himself. Then again it may just be the way he likes it or as he is just getting the players to play the way he wants them and as they are not used to it then we are just naturally cautious.

Fact is none of us know enough about the guy to really tell what it is!

[brite blu sky]

I dunno mate, to be honest, I thought we started a lot of the games at home reasonably brightly, but ten mins in reverted to defensive football...

Maybe its just a plan that is finally being put into proper practice, but I can't figure out Mancini's tactics so I'm not going to try to because everytime I think I have an idea, it gets turned upside down!

Lets see how we do against Sunderland and then the next home game and we'll see exactly how he operates, because I'm hopeful this was a turning point and his plan/style is now being enforced, while the "settling in" period is definitely over.

But I'll give you one "reason to be cautious" and not get too excited:

This is Manchester City.

lol

your spot on with the starting brightly for 10mins thing.. and tbh with the inabiltiy to sus out much of a pattern to Bob's thinking, it is quite baffling. But hey i guess if we cant sus it out then oppo managers are gonna be in the same boat.

i suppose it is the knowledge that the cautious strategy is ironically quite risky as many people have pointed out. Then if it is all about the players getting in tune with the strategy and that is starting to happen more and more, then we can be more optimistic about being cautious.. ;)

Seriously though i think you might be more on the money with the idea it is the players who are reverting to being cautious while they come up to speed with what Bob wants.
Once again though i think the Stoke games were good realtime practice for us and the Chelsea game also.
I would add too that for f**king once we havent gone overboard after that win.. seems we are learning a little about keeping our feet on the ground. Good imo

[Beefymcfc]

I'm not sure if the cautiousness is just a Mancio trait as I've felt that we've played like this all season, under Hughes as well. I've mentioned many a time the fact that we seem very slow and lacking any sort of momentum in the first 20 mins or so and I'd suggest that if you looked at goal timing stats, that you'd probably find that only a handful have been scored in the first 15 minutes in the Prem.

It may not be a manager thing, but more to do with the players.

[MaineRoadMemories]

Goals Scored
0 - 15........................6
16 - 30.......................6
31 - 45.......................12
46 - 60.......................11
61 - 75.......................8
76 - 90.......................9

Goals Conceded
0 - 15........................5
16 - 30.......................4
31 - 45.......................7
46 - 60.......................5
61 - 75.......................6
76 - 90.......................8

We are at our most dangerous coming towards half time and just after half time.

[Beefymcfc]

Goals Scored
0 - 15........................6
16 - 30.......................6
31 - 45.......................12
46 - 60.......................11
61 - 75.......................8
76 - 90.......................9

Goals Conceded
0 - 15........................5
16 - 30.......................4
31 - 45.......................7
46 - 60.......................5
61 - 75.......................6
76 - 90.......................8

We are at our most dangerous coming towards half time and just after half time.

Cheers mate, and goes to show that we start off very slowly, allowing the opposition to get a foot hold in the game. I'd like to see us go from the start and put them under pressure more.

[dikdik]

And our most vulnerable towards the end!

[brite blu sky]

Goals Scored
0 - 15........................6
16 - 30.......................6
31 - 45.......................12
46 - 60.......................11
61 - 75.......................8
76 - 90.......................9

Goals Conceded
0 - 15........................5
16 - 30.......................4
31 - 45.......................7
46 - 60.......................5
61 - 75.......................6
76 - 90.......................8

We are at our most dangerous coming towards half time and just after half time.

Which is basically classically great.. shows we really know when to apply the pressure.

The conceding stats showing we still need to work on concentration at the end of games, as we all know only too well !

also Beefy is very correct that this team have always seemed a little reluctant to start fast and hard. So the idea that it is the players 'style' seems more appropriate.

[brite blu sky]

Ted Hughes » 02 Mar 2010 12:46

Original Dub wrote:
DoomMerchant wrote:
Grob wrote:
To be fair, games like Chelsea away are pretty much isolated fixtures. They have a better team and squad than us, they are on their home patch, they rarely drop points at Stamford Bridge.

Yes, they outplayed us for long periods but they outplay everyone at home so an irrelevent point. Yes we were fortunate that they didnt have Cech and they decided to have men sent off.

But, considering it was Chelsea we performed as well defensivly as ive seen anyone do for a while, we looked threatening on the break and we took our chances.

We wont do much better than that at Stamford Bridge for a while.

Reading the last few pages of this topic makes me wonder if all some of you want to do is make smart comments or nitpick other posters incessantly because they thought we were 'brilliant' on saturday.


yr clearly trying to pick a fight. i hope you get what's coming to you.

cheers

P.S. for the record, we blew donkey nuts for the first 40 mins on Saturday, and only a Vassellian goal from Tevez brought us back from the brink. Everyone knows that i think, right? If we approach Arse or Villa or Spurs the same way in the first 40 mins we could be cooked in those matches. A Chelsea fan would surely see that as their worst match of the season i think.

Also, were Wigan world-beaters when they tonked them 3-1 earlier in the season? just sayin.

cheers again


No mate, some people don't see it like that AT ALL. I got called silly and "illinformed" for saying the same thing you did. My support was questioned and there was genuine disbelief that some of us thought we were poor first half and excellent second half.

The ability to say what you see seems to have left some folk at the moment and they look completely blinkered as a result.

I just wish we didn't have this big international break because I'm dying to find out which city will take on Sunderland. If its the first half, we could definitely lose that game because they are now in a relegation fight. If its the second half city, it doesn't matter who we play.


Imo the 2nd half of the Chelsea game was proof that we can do it & I agree; playing like that we could do the same to most teams inc Arsenal away. We have to find a way of playing against teams that won't allow us to counter attack if we're to get 4th place though.
Some teams, even if they're at home, will just sit back & those tactics won't have the same effect until we get a goal in front. If we can solve that problem of nicking the 1st goal without cocking up at the back & then produce that kind of counter attacking we'll be in for a happy end to the season.

This quote is from the Laughing stock thread.. but tbh it is what i was trying to point out in this thread..

in ref to this quote, it seems to me there is a lot of debate about how good/bad we are. To me it has seemed the same almost all season, where we seem like just a hairs breadth from iether being brilliant or collapsing.

I watched the full Chelsea game again last night, and i didn't think we were struggling that much in the first half, i thought we contained them reasonably well and for me MOST IMPORTANTLY we tried to hold the defensive line higher up the pitch for once. Chelsea certainly were not all over us and in fact were finding it difficult to break us down. To me it seemed like we were playing it cautiously but thats about it.
Im not trying to suggest that Tevez's goal didnt change the game etc.. or that at the time he got that Chelsea were trying to up the pressure after they got the boost from cutting us open for their goal.

i suppose my point in the OP still stands.. as in we seem to adopt a cautious, holding attitude to begin with and try to build on it as the game goes on. I suppose this is just more of a continental style than we are used to.
The thing that seems to be frustrating a lot of fans at the mo, is that once we start to, or have to, change to an attacking mentality we become dangerous. ( unless it is a park the bus opposition ).

[Blue Since 76]

My take on the away games is that we are trying to stifle the game. When nothing happens for 20 minutes or so, the crowd become quiet or start to get at their own team. We can then start trying to play. It's difficult to do, as basically, nothing needs to happen - it's no use if they're having loads of shots or nasty tackles are flying in. It also makes it difficult for us to up the pace, which comes down to having the right sort of players.

It was interesting to see the difference in the cup game at stoke where we started really brightly and caught stoke out. Just a pity we couldn't score, as we got worse as that game went on