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I think its a shit move! i would have hart any day over given..

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528, ... 98,00.html

Birmingham City vice-chairman Peter Pannu has revealed Manchester City have agreed to let Joe Hart stay at St Andrews on loan next season.

Hart has impressed during his time with Birmingham and has been a key factor in the club residing in the top half of the Premier League table following last season's promotion.

His displays have also prompted talk of a call-up to the England World Cup squad and Alex McLeish has expressed a desire to keep hold of the keeper.

Pannu has confirmed that Birmingham did make an enquiry about the possibility of signing the 22-year-old permanently, but that was quickly rejected.

However, Pannu claims that the UEFA Champions League chasers are willing to let Hart spend a second campaign on loan in the Midlands.

Fabulous
"What has happened is that we have actually approached Manchester City with a view to buying him," Pannu told a fans' forum.

"But the difficulty is that we have recognised him as a fabulous goalie and Manchester City recognises that as well.

"So they very politely rejected our approach to them to purchase him. They have said they will let him stay here for another season on loan, but he is not for sale."

Pannu continued: "They appreciate the way Alex has built him up, he has got a very strong reputation in England. They appreciate that and will give us priority on the loan deal.

"He will be with us for another season, unless anything changes. That is the position."

I think its fantastic, I think Given is better than he gets credit for, but having such a poor defence in front of him cannot do much for his confidence?

I like the fact that Joe is getting more experience in a premiership club, he's already a fantastic keeper, I honestly think he'll be world class in a few years!!

No way would I let Hart go out on loan again. We need top goalies to compete and I think that Hart will get a good opportunity to shine for England too. It would do Given a world of good to have real competition for his place.

sandman wrote:I think its fantastic, I think Given is better than he gets credit for, but having such a poor defence in front of him cannot do much for his confidence?

I like the fact that Joe is getting more experience in a premiership club, he's already a fantastic keeper, I honestly think he'll be world class in a few years!!

Agree with this, great move for both. Given is the better out the two for me. Hart will keep getting experience there and can be recalled should shay get injured. Win win

I would agree with that in the shorter term Zurich but I think him staying at Brum another 12 months could be better for us in the longer term.
The extra season of regular prem games will probably be all he needs to overtake Given and become opur permanent keeper for a long time.
Getting games at Brum not only ensures his progress but keeps him on our books and more important happy to be so.
Win win situation.

A lot depends, wouldn't you agree, on the kind of season that BCFC have next season. I rather imagine that it won't be anywhere near as good as the present one (and Hart deserves a great deal of credit for that in my mind too).

We played them last week. He made some good saves and commanded his area well. But, I think that 2nd season syndrome could be a factor next time around and wonder whether a season-long relegation struggle would be good for him.

Tell you what. We'll have him. Ta. You can have Green as back up to Given instead.

john68 wrote:I would agree with that in the shorter term Zurich but I think him staying at Brum another 12 months could be better for us in the longer term.
The extra season of regular prem games will probably be all he needs to overtake Given and become opur permanent keeper for a long time.
Getting games at Brum not only ensures his progress but keeps him on our books and more important happy to be so.
Win win situation.

I know what you're saying. It's a difficult situation , one way or the other. I just wish we had the flexibility to let Joe have a game or two right now to see how it would work.

zuricity wrote:No way would I let Hart go out on loan again. We need top goalies to compete and I think that Hart will get a good opportunity to shine for England too. It would do Given a world of good to have real competition for his place.

You think? I'm having trouble thinking of a big club with 'real competition' between the sticks.

zuricity wrote:

john68 wrote:I would agree with that in the shorter term Zurich but I think him staying at Brum another 12 months could be better for us in the longer term.
The extra season of regular prem games will probably be all he needs to overtake Given and become opur permanent keeper for a long time.
Getting games at Brum not only ensures his progress but keeps him on our books and more important happy to be so.
Win win situation.

I know what you're saying. It's a difficult situation , one way or the other. I just wish we had the flexibility to let Joe have a game or two right now to see how it would work.

Brilliant.


Also, Hart is a quality keeper, but the last thing he needs is to be sat on the city bench for the entire season which he definitely would be. Even if Mancini were as critical of Shay as some on here, he would drop Shay, put Hart in, concede more goals, realise its the fact we simply do not have a balanced, consistant line of defence, put Shay back in and work on the defence.

But he has half a brain I'm sure, so he'll probably skip all of that, leave Hart getting invaluable premier league experience and work on our defence, so that we end up having a full defensive unit not unlike the Irish international defence, where Given regularly keeps clean sheets and has probably never conceded 3 goals in a full international.

I'm fucking sick of saying that and whilst I realise every player will make mistakes, its crazy to see the countless threads talking about Given's massive weakness.

A weakness that simply does not exist at international level.

Original Dub wrote:...But he has half a brain I'm sure, so he'll probably skip all of that, leave Hart getting invaluable premier league experience and work on our defence, so that we end up having a full defensive unit not unlike the Irish international defence, where Given regularly keeps clean sheets and has probably never conceded 3 goals in a full international.

I like seeing such thorough research. ;-)

Hart needs to keep playing but I do believe we should not make any decision on him (other than to say no to everything Birmingham ask) until the end of July.

Tokyo Blue wrote:

Original Dub wrote:...But he has half a brain I'm sure, so he'll probably skip all of that, leave Hart getting invaluable premier league experience and work on our defence, so that we end up having a full defensive unit not unlike the Irish international defence, where Given regularly keeps clean sheets and has probably never conceded 3 goals in a full international.

I like seeing such thorough research. ;-)

Hart needs to keep playing but I do believe we should not make any decision on him (other than to say no to everything Birmingham ask) until the end of July.

Fuck you Tokyo.

I think I know what I'm talking about. I'm almost certain....

If we acheive 4th place & CL next season I think he needs to be here not Birmingham, he was unlucky to be dropped when Hughes bought Given and if he was still here Given would be seriously looking over his shoulder because he`s under performed recently but can get away with mistakes because Taylor is not up to the job full stop.

Lee's Alter Ego wrote:

sandman wrote:I think its fantastic, I think Given is better than he gets credit for, but having such a poor defence in front of him cannot do much for his confidence?

I like the fact that Joe is getting more experience in a premiership club, he's already a fantastic keeper, I honestly think he'll be world class in a few years!!

Agree with this, great move for both. Given is the better out the two for me. Hart will keep getting experience there and can be recalled should shay get injured. Win win

This is of course the professional/sensible thing to do - all clubs would like to be able to do this but it is only clubs like CITY that can afford to

1/ I do not think that any one here in the months after Given started disputed Given was the better keeper - we all rated Joe highly - but Shay was clearly a different league

2/ Why are people suggesting that we get Joe back now? - because he has improved significantly and is developing such that he can be the 1st choice keeper for us in the future

3/ Why is that? - because we have been sensible enough to put him into a situation where he can really develop - whilst making clear to all parties that he is part of our future

4/ So in a couple of years time we will be able to bring Joe back in and have a top keeper slot straight in at a time of our choosing - it is called good management and a win-win for all parties

coxy wrote:If we acheive 4th place & CL next season I think he needs to be here not Birmingham, he was unlucky to be dropped when Hughes bought Given and if he was still here Given would be seriously looking over his shoulder because he`s under performed recently but can get away with mistakes because Taylor is not up to the job full stop.

We'll definitely be playing in 4 competitions next season (CL or Europa League) so Hart and Given can both get plenty of play time. And what happens if Given is injured ? Can we depend on Taylor to do the job ??

Perhaps Given needs a better quality 'Keeper to provide him with some competition in between the sticks. Whilst he was my hero last season with some Penalty saves (along with one at home to Chelsea this season) - he's looked shaky recently and I'd wonder if he's losing any motivation. Admittedly, our Defence doesn't help - but he's not been filling me with confidence in recent weeks.

Besides, Hart could do with a 'Keeper like Given to train with on a daily basis.

I think a lot of poster perhaps miss the point between a 1st choice keeper and back up

Top clubs actually only really have 1 1st choice keeper - the anomaly was Chelski a few years ago and that did not last.

Fact is that top keepers will not simply warm a bench or just play the occasional 2nd tier game

Back up keepers are those that are willing to do that but are able to step in at an acceptable level should something happen to the 1st choice.

Given is a 1st choice - Hart is a 1st choice - Taylor is a back-up

So we need to develop Joe by having him out on loan somewhere where can be 1st choice - we need to keep Shay as our first choice up to the point where it is clear Joe is better (a few years away I would suggest) and we need to consider if Taylor is good enough as back-up - in my view is not - the sort of player I would have wanted is Kuszczak, Sorenson or Jasskelainen - I think that Jasskelainen would be perfect - it might be 1st choice at Bolton but at his stage of his career be willing to 'take the money' and we could pay him more as back up at CITY and give him enough games to keep him happy

mcfc1632 wrote:I think a lot of poster perhaps miss the point between a 1st choice keeper and back up

Top clubs actually only really have 1 1st choice keeper - the anomaly was Chelski a few years ago and that did not last.

Fact is that top keepers will not simply warm a bench or just play the occasional 2nd tier game

Back up keepers are those that are willing to do that but are able to step in at an acceptable level should something happen to the 1st choice.

Given is a 1st choice - Hart is a 1st choice - Taylor is a back-up

So we need to develop Joe by having him out on loan somewhere where can be 1st choice - we need to keep Shay as our first choice up to the point where it is clear Joe is better (a few years away I would suggest) and we need to consider if Taylor is good enough as back-up - in my view is not - the sort of player I would have wanted is Kuszczak, Sorenson or Jasskelainen - I think that Jasskelainen would be perfect - it might be 1st choice at Bolton but at his stage of his career be willing to 'take the money' and we could pay him more as back up at CITY and give him enough games to keep him happy

Hart will have been out on loan for a season by the time 09/10 finishes and letting him go out on loan again for another season doesn't seem right. Birmingham City will be in the Premiership next season and will presumably be keen on keeping him on a more permanent basis. I understand he's done very well there.

Personally, I want to keep both Hart and Given with a preference for Shay. I think it's important for Hart to feel wanted by City and to continue training the City way. Perhaps also start him for Carling Cup Matches, Europa / CL Matches and even FA Cup. I fully understand that the Guy wants regular first Team Football - but two 'Keepers of good ability doesn't seem an unreasonable request for a Squad challenging on all fronts.

Plus I still believe Given needs some serious competition for the Jersey. Keep him alert.

Perfect solution.

Hart will replace Given in one, or possibly two seasons.

In the meantime he gets Premier league experience and a shot at the England job.

All this stuff about competition is a red herring. Goalkeepers don't really compete with their understudies as they are rarely dropped based on performance and are rarely injured.

If Given were to get seriously injured we could recall Hart.

I don't understand why some want to see Hart sitting in a blue chair.

Ideal situation for both player and club, Shay might be having a dodgy spell at the moment, but he's better than what were seeing just lately, and will recover his confidence.

best scenario i think for hart, regular games, chance to be in the england world cup squad at the present and another season loan at brum will do him no harm at all re experience and confidence. thats is what loan moves are for.

those who are saying get him back just beacuse of a fe slip ups from shay need to calm down and relax! it could be worse...we could have fabianski in goal............now theres a sobering thought.