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Ok, I think we have all seen enough now to realise that he isn't going to defend the ball in the air when it comes in from the flanks.

Can we please stop pissing about with this ludicrous tactic and get the big lads in where it matters.

barry was generally poor tonight, think the booing really got to him

Svensational wrote:I couldnt believe it when Dunnes 2nd header that just flew wide of the post, it was Barry once again marking him! How can you make the same mistake twice in one match, unbelievable! Surely theres other players who can come in and defend set pieces better than Barry?

How can you make the same mistake twice in one match AGAIN - Remember what happened at the swamp.

citytilidie wrote:barry was generally poor tonight, think the booing really got to him

i thought that aswell.
maybe he was hurt at what the villa fans were doing but i think that shows a bit a weakness if true.
i was hopeing he would take swp and barry off for petrov and ireland but as de jong took a knock it wasnt to happen

maybe we were over confident with Barry beating Dunney in the air? let's be fair to Barry, Dunney's hardly been winning headers for fun so far this season, probably especially when in training at our place.

Yes. I think we've established beyond any doubt that Gaz can't be trusted to pick people up at set pieces. Get him on the post or on the edge of the box to pick up the pieces.

It's not so much a question of which players are in our box when defending set pieces, it's more a question of where they are in the box.

Barry should be in the box defending but he should not be one of the guys on the edge of the 6 yard box directly in front of the goal.

Can't really disagree with this. 'Specially when Ade seemed to be a spare man. Sort it out lads!

you would think the manager would have sorted this out!!!!
or maybe the captain at the next set piece!!!

Our defending of set pieces will cost us a fair few goals this season unless we start going man for man on the opposition's main threats and just zonal mark the front post and 3 key areas of the six yard box.

A lot of our problems come from near post fiascos so Adebayor has been put there & stopped 2 possible goals. If you take him away from there the oppo will just put the ball where he isn't. It's not rocket sceince. I keep making the point that we're outnumbered aerially. Even if we practice it all the time, we only realistically have Adebayor, Lescott & Toure & Toure's not that brilliant at it. Liverpool can't defend corners & they're miles better aerially, so how do we expect to get away with it?

We'll get better at it as the team get to know each other but wheras Richards would become an assett & tonight would've massacred Dunne in the air, it's hard to see Zabeleta & Bridge becoming anything more than average at it. Barry is better than those two but still vulnerable. In a team full of dwarves, can you afford to have 2 fullbacks who can't defend set pieces? I recon you can't in at least half the games. So we either play Richards or we have to play Vinnie midfield or start with RSC in these tough away games.

King Kev wrote:It's not so much a question of which players are in our box when defending set pieces, it's more a question of where they are in the box.

Barry should be in the box defending but he should not be one of the guys on the edge of the 6 yard box directly in front of the goal.

I fully agree with this. Most of the time our set pieces defending looks like sunday league quality where players themselves decide who they mark. 'You take that number nine and I'll mark this tall chap'. Also we seem to have some weird system that's mixture of zonal marking and man marking and players clearly aren't comfortable with it right now. Lot of training is needed in that area.

Ade is the best header of the ball - I would have him in the key position that Barry seems to have been allocated

mcfc1632 wrote:Ade is the best header of the ball - I would have him in the key position that Barry seems to have been allocated

But then the corner taker will just put the corners elsewhere.

If giving goals away like this continues, one, or even two, of the short-arses is going to have to go. Richards for Zabaleta would help, as Ted Hughes rightly said. Richards could then take a centre-half. Kompany for de Jong could also make a difference, as could a fit RSC for Tevez.

Ted Hughes wrote:A lot of our problems come from near post fiascos so Adebayor has been put there & stopped 2 possible goals. If you take him away from there the oppo will just put the ball where he isn't. It's not rocket sceince. I keep making the point that we're outnumbered aerially. Even if we practice it all the time, we only realistically have Adebayor, Lescott & Toure & Toure's not that brilliant at it. Liverpool can't defend corners & they're miles better aerially, so how do we expect to get away with it?

We'll get better at it as the team get to know each other but wheras Richards would become an assett & tonight would've massacred Dunne in the air, it's hard to see Zabeleta & Bridge becoming anything more than average at it. Barry is better than those two but still vulnerable. In a team full of dwarves, can you afford to have 2 fullbacks who can't defend set pieces? I recon you can't in at least half the games. So we either play Richards or we have to play Vinnie midfield or start with RSC in these tough away games.

Couldn't agree more.

Ade is superb at the near post and makes it a complete no-go area for a corner taker. He cut them out countless times against Arsenal for example.

Our two centre halves are the only other real aerial challenge for players packing the box. Last night for example -

City in the air - Lescott, Toure, Adebayor

Villa in the air - Dunne, Collins, Carew

So with Ade on the near post it's basically a three on two scenario. From what I remember Lescott always picked up carew so that leaves Toure on Collins and Dunne to be picked up.

I'm open to correction but was Barry our next tallest player after the three I mentioned?

xavi6 wrote:I'm open to correction but was Barry our next tallest player after the three I mentioned?

He well may be, but there's no point being tall if you don't know how to time your jump and show no aggression whatsoever when trying to win a header.

King Kev wrote:

xavi6 wrote:I'm open to correction but was Barry our next tallest player after the three I mentioned?

He well may be, but there's no point being tall if you don't know how to time your jump and show no aggression whatsoever when trying to win a header.

I agree, and in general I'd have thought Barry was solid enough in the air. I think it was the occasion that got to him and had him more flat footed than usual.

Going into the game I wouldn't have been anonoyed at Barry picking up one of their aerial threats at set pieces.

Richards is only 5'11" and I would say he could beat out anyone in our side in the air, hell he gets above crouch who doesn't have to jump to win headers.

I thought it would be an obvious tactic that our biggest men (Ade, Lescott,Toure) would mark their biggest men (Carew, Collins, Dunne) at set peices. I fully expect this to rectified for the next game. If i see Ade not marking anyone at all and Barry left with a big man at a corner then something is wrong somewhere.

On a brighter note, i had it as 1-1 so i'm quids in ;-)

I haven't seen the game as I listened on 5 live last night. Both commentators thought we looked short at the back in numbers as well as in height and could not understand why Ade was not picking up a man at set pieces. I confess I have never been a fan of zonal defending - it just seems wrong- but I have always thought it a good idea to have a man on the near post at set pieces.

Every team will have seen the video of us vs Arsenal and will know to keep the ball away from Ade so we need a back up plan or we are going to come unstuck against Stoke.