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Sorry if its been posted - I couldn't see a thread on it and I reckon it deserves its own thread...

He felt dizzy and disorientated during the game, but SSN are reporting now that after tests, he's been given the all clear. He'll rest today and resume training on Sat.

It'd be great of Johnson could step in or we could start with the 4-4-2 we finished with last night, because he's been off colour for one reason or another since the arsenal game and a couple of weeks would do him the world of good IMO.

I know he's been told to sit deep and I don't expect him to be setting up and scoring nearly the same amount of goals as last season, but even his tackling and overall tenacity is below par for him and a rest would be best.

He'll be back firing on all cylinders no doubt, but the dependency on him given our lack of options at the minute was what I feared before the window shut.

Get well soon Superman!

Superman's form hasnt hit the heights yet but im sure it will soon enough.
I think his form dip shows we still need a few more players come Jan.

Yeah i just read that on the OS

Stevie Ireland is back home after being taken to hospital following last night’s Carling Cup win over Fulham.

The Blues reigning player of the season was substituted in the 75th minute of the 2-1 win and taken for precautionary checks after complaining of dizziness and feeling unwell.

Tests were carried on the 23-year-old and he was given the all-clear. He is expected to rest today and resume training at the weekend for the visit of West Ham on Monday night.

I think he's possibly been overdoing it & should rest a bit more. He's not been quite as sharp as last season but he's still been involved in games even if he's not been as effective going forward. He's not been awful by any means.

People are also underestimating the effect Robinho has on Ireland's play. The bizarre movement of Robinho opens up a whole different set of options & he also feeds Ireland when he makes runs wheras others don't always see it. When both are fully fit we'll see Ireland back to his best I'm sure.

Ted Hughes wrote:I think he's possibly been overdoing it & should rest a bit more. He's not been quite as sharp as last season but he's still been involved in games even if he's not been as effective going forward. He's not been awful by any means.

People are also underestimating the effect Robinho has on Ireland's play. The bizarre movement of Robinho opens up a whole different set of options & he also feeds Ireland when he makes runs wheras others don't always see it. When both are fully fit we'll see Ireland back to his best I'm sure.

That's a good point mate. It could well make a difference to Ireland's form... when Robinho's back we should find out just how deep Ireland's position really is.

If it continues like this for the season and beyond, it would seem that Hughes is slightly abandoning the playmaker system of last season... I don't really care as long as we're winning, but while Ireland is a fantastic playmaker who puts in a shift defensively, as a player he is wasted being told to just do the shift work and only burst forward on a rare occassion.

There are better players for that role than Ireland, so if we're not gonna let him do the exact job as last season in the long run, I can't see him hanging around TBH.

Ted Hughes wrote:I think he's possibly been overdoing it & should rest a bit more. He's not been quite as sharp as last season but he's still been involved in games even if he's not been as effective going forward. He's not been awful by any means.

People are also underestimating the effect Robinho has on Ireland's play. The bizarre movement of Robinho opens up a whole different set of options & he also feeds Ireland when he makes runs wheras others don't always see it. When both are fully fit we'll see Ireland back to his best I'm sure.

We were discussing same last night. I thought at Rangers and at home v Celtic he looked in really good form and when he scored on the opening day I assumed he was going to have a storming season. It's not really happened so far though. I do believe that he is missing Robinho on the left though.

Is this the first Ireland thread?

His performances have been nowhere near last season and he is clearly struggling to have the impact he had in the more advanced role that came with much more freedom last year.

Is this the "Gerrard and Lampard can't play together" problem.

Our options going forward when all are available probably mean that we don't need a central midfielder in a forward role, our real strength should be down the flanks but it means that Ireland's strengths are being wasted and that's criminal frankly.

Original Dub wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:I think he's possibly been overdoing it & should rest a bit more. He's not been quite as sharp as last season but he's still been involved in games even if he's not been as effective going forward. He's not been awful by any means.

People are also underestimating the effect Robinho has on Ireland's play. The bizarre movement of Robinho opens up a whole different set of options & he also feeds Ireland when he makes runs wheras others don't always see it. When both are fully fit we'll see Ireland back to his best I'm sure.

That's a good point mate. It could well make a difference to Ireland's form... when Robinho's back we should find out just how deep Ireland's position really is.

If it continues like this for the season and beyond, it would seem that Hughes is slightly abandoning the playmaker system of last season... I don't really care as long as we're winning, but while Ireland is a fantastic playmaker who puts in a shift defensively, as a player he is wasted being told to just do the shift work and only burst forward on a rare occassion.

There are better players for that role than Ireland, so if we're not gonna let him do the exact job as last season in the long run, I can't see him hanging around TBH.

I think we'll see different systems employed during the course of games once everyone's fit & got to know each other. The truly great midfield players are the ones who can do all jobs in one though. It's up to Ireland whether he'd rather be a 'playmaker' & therefore only succeed in a side that's built to suit him or whether he can score & create whilst doing a full job. Very few top sides allow the luxury of a playmaker & those who do have blokes who get 20-30 goals & bang in free kicks regularly.

If he'd rather have it easy & be a 'playmaker' then his position is always under threat if a new Gerrard or Lampard comes along who score more goals get plenty of assists but can do it in an orthodox role. I don't think for one minute he'll take the easy route.

Ted Hughes wrote:

Original Dub wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:I think he's possibly been overdoing it & should rest a bit more. He's not been quite as sharp as last season but he's still been involved in games even if he's not been as effective going forward. He's not been awful by any means.

People are also underestimating the effect Robinho has on Ireland's play. The bizarre movement of Robinho opens up a whole different set of options & he also feeds Ireland when he makes runs wheras others don't always see it. When both are fully fit we'll see Ireland back to his best I'm sure.

That's a good point mate. It could well make a difference to Ireland's form... when Robinho's back we should find out just how deep Ireland's position really is.

If it continues like this for the season and beyond, it would seem that Hughes is slightly abandoning the playmaker system of last season... I don't really care as long as we're winning, but while Ireland is a fantastic playmaker who puts in a shift defensively, as a player he is wasted being told to just do the shift work and only burst forward on a rare occassion.

There are better players for that role than Ireland, so if we're not gonna let him do the exact job as last season in the long run, I can't see him hanging around TBH.

I think we'll see different systems employed during the course of games once everyone's fit & got to know each other. The truly great midfield players are the ones who can do all jobs in one though. It's up to Ireland whether he'd rather be a 'playmaker' & therefore only succeed in a side that's built to suit him or whether he can score & create whilst doing a full job. Very few top sides allow the luxury of a playmaker & those who do have blokes who get 20-30 goals & bang in free kicks regularly.

If he'd rather have it easy & be a 'playmaker' then his position is always under threat if a new Gerrard or Lampard comes along who score more goals get plenty of assists but can do it in an orthodox role. I don't think for one minute he'll take the easy route.

Well mate, that said, the only position I think Gerrard or Lampard would be wasted in would be the role Ireland LOOKS to be asked to play. Play Gerrard on the right, left attacking mid or right behind the striker and he's immense... whilst tackling when needed to to.

I'd say the same about Superman.

I take the point at he is having to play deeper this season, but that doesn't affect or excuse his general passing though, which has been very poor in the last few games, last night he couldn't even play the simple stuff that we take for granted from him.

If he is ill or suffering from something, that would certainly offer some kind of an explanation though.

Before we had Ade, we never threw early crosses into the box because it is was a waste of time and therefore we had to play our strikers in with little intricate passing movements around the edge of the box ...... and this was ideally suited to him and Robbi.

Now with Ade, as we tend to move the ball forward quicker, he will have a different role to get used to.

Lytham has it nailed on here.
Wise words.

lythamblue wrote:I take the point at he is having to play deeper this season, but that doesn't affect or excuse his general passing though, which has been very poor in the last few games, last night he couldn't even play the simple stuff that we take for granted from him.

If he is ill or suffering from something, that would certainly offer some kind of an explanation though.

Before we had Ade, we never threw early crosses into the box because it is was a waste of time and therefore we had to play our strikers in with little intricate passing movements around the edge of the box ...... and this was ideally suited to him and Robbi.

Now with Ade, as we tend to move the ball forward quicker, he will have a different role to get used to.

I was kind of inferring to that earlier in the thread... I didn't mention his passing, but his overall tenacity, which is what makes him stand out IMO... it is definitely below par.

Like I said, I'm sure he'll bounce back, but just like the last two times he's had to come off, he's only being given a few days rest when I think he needs a couple of weeks.

The problem is, you get a few people who were proved wrong about him last season jumping on his back again and asking for Sunderland to come back in for him and the whole "driving him there myself" lark...

I hate the fickleness that's crept into the club since the money... and players need prove they are a poor player before ever recieving treatment like that... if at all.

Original Dub wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

Original Dub wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:I think he's possibly been overdoing it & should rest a bit more. He's not been quite as sharp as last season but he's still been involved in games even if he's not been as effective going forward. He's not been awful by any means.

People are also underestimating the effect Robinho has on Ireland's play. The bizarre movement of Robinho opens up a whole different set of options & he also feeds Ireland when he makes runs wheras others don't always see it. When both are fully fit we'll see Ireland back to his best I'm sure.

That's a good point mate. It could well make a difference to Ireland's form... when Robinho's back we should find out just how deep Ireland's position really is.

If it continues like this for the season and beyond, it would seem that Hughes is slightly abandoning the playmaker system of last season... I don't really care as long as we're winning, but while Ireland is a fantastic playmaker who puts in a shift defensively, as a player he is wasted being told to just do the shift work and only burst forward on a rare occassion.

There are better players for that role than Ireland, so if we're not gonna let him do the exact job as last season in the long run, I can't see him hanging around TBH.

I think we'll see different systems employed during the course of games once everyone's fit & got to know each other. The truly great midfield players are the ones who can do all jobs in one though. It's up to Ireland whether he'd rather be a 'playmaker' & therefore only succeed in a side that's built to suit him or whether he can score & create whilst doing a full job. Very few top sides allow the luxury of a playmaker & those who do have blokes who get 20-30 goals & bang in free kicks regularly.

If he'd rather have it easy & be a 'playmaker' then his position is always under threat if a new Gerrard or Lampard comes along who score more goals get plenty of assists but can do it in an orthodox role. I don't think for one minute he'll take the easy route.

Well mate, that said, the only position I think Gerrard or Lampard would be wasted in would be the role Ireland LOOKS to be asked to play. Play Gerrard on the right, left attacking mid or right behind the striker and he's immense... whilst tackling when needed to to.

I'd say the same about Superman.

The only reason Ireland has become a top player is because he's added workrate to his skill. Take that away & he's simply not anywhere near as good as a Gascoigne or Zidane or Ronaldinho as a creator/scorer. We can afford to buy the next player of that type that comes along if we feel we need a playmaker so Ireland needs to be able to fill another position whatever the circumstances. Otherwise he's narrowing his options to only playing in certain formations. Gerrard, Lampard, Robson, Bell etc would all adapt with ease.

If the choice is Zidane or Ireland, then Ireland needs to become the bloke who plays next to him.

I disagree Ted. I don't think Gerrard would have been brilliant in a deep role. Or Lampard.

They may well be able to 'do a job if need be' given the experience they now have, but to employ them in that position full time is criminal. And if you say that Stevie Ireland didn't show the attributes of a young Gerrard last season than I'd have to disagree with you.

Original Dub wrote:I disagree Ted. I don't think Gerrard would have been brilliant in a deep role. Or Lampard.

They may well be able to 'do a job if need be' given the experience they now have, but to employ them in that position full time is criminal. And if you say that Stevie Ireland didn't show the attributes of a young Gerrard last season than I'd have to disagree with you.

I don't think Ireland's playing in a deep role, he's just playing in a more orthadox midfield role & isn't as good as a Lampard or Gerrard or Robson at knowing when to come forward & when to go back. It's the next stage of his development. They've all played many games in the same role & done it perfectly.

There's no point though in pretending Ireland has the abilities of a Lampard or Gerrard because he simply doesn't. You're talking about 2 of the best strikers of a ball in PL history. Ireland has a bit more craft & guile but as an attacking threat is smaller so cant get to headers like they do & nowhere even on the same planet as a threat when shooting. He has to find a job to do alongside players like that, where he can be just as valuable to the team. That's what's happening imo.

I think playing Sweep and Tevez is creating the problem in all honesty. I would take out SWP to allow Nige to move into the starting lineup freeing Stevie to get back to his roaming position. We dont need Tevez and Swp on the right hand side. Tevez will track back all day if instructed to.

Ted Hughes wrote:

Original Dub wrote:I disagree Ted. I don't think Gerrard would have been brilliant in a deep role. Or Lampard.

They may well be able to 'do a job if need be' given the experience they now have, but to employ them in that position full time is criminal. And if you say that Stevie Ireland didn't show the attributes of a young Gerrard last season than I'd have to disagree with you.

I don't think Ireland's playing in a deep role, he's just playing in a more orthadox midfield role & isn't as good as a Lampard or Gerrard or Robson at knowing when to come forward & when to go back. It's the next stage of his development. They've all played many games in the same role & done it perfectly.

There's no point though in pretending Ireland has the abilities of a Lampard or Gerrard because he simply doesn't. You're talking about 2 of the best strikers of a ball in PL history. Ireland has a bit more craft & guile but as an attacking threat is smaller so cant get to headers like they do & nowhere even on the same planet as a threat when shooting. He has to find a job to do alongside players like that, where he can be just as valuable to the team. That's what's happening imo.

Can't agree with you mate. When gerrard was the same age as Ireland, he scored 4 league goals and didn't better him until 2 or 3 years ago. His 'graft' isn't the same as you say, so what exactly was Gerrard doing when he was the same age as Stevie then?

svengali wrote:I think playing Sweep and Tevez is creating the problem in all honesty. I would take out SWP to allow Nige to move into the starting lineup freeing Stevie to get back to his roaming position. We dont need Tevez and Swp on the right hand side. Tevez will track back all day if instructed to.

True but we now have the option of crosses & strikers who can score them. Imagine if we found that playing with two wide men, say Weiss even or Petrov or Robinho or Bellamy as wingers/wide midfield, puts us top of the league? Then we'd need two orthadox centre midfield players. If Ireland can't adapt to that job, he'd end up being dropped. That's just one example. There are many other systems where Ireland may need to do a different job. He has all the attributes to be able to do it so it's good if he learns it.

Ted Hughes wrote:I think he's possibly been overdoing it & should rest a bit more. He's not been quite as sharp as last season but he's still been involved in games even if he's not been as effective going forward. He's not been awful by any means.

People are also underestimating the effect Robinho has on Ireland's play. The bizarre movement of Robinho opens up a whole different set of options & he also feeds Ireland when he makes runs wheras others don't always see it. When both are fully fit we'll see Ireland back to his best I'm sure.

I agree mate since Robsons been out Irelands form has took a nose dive them two work perfect together and play well off each other. I do think though Ireland has lost a lot of confidence though this season and been overexerting himself thus leading to what happened last night.

Original Dub wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

Original Dub wrote:I disagree Ted. I don't think Gerrard would have been brilliant in a deep role. Or Lampard.

They may well be able to 'do a job if need be' given the experience they now have, but to employ them in that position full time is criminal. And if you say that Stevie Ireland didn't show the attributes of a young Gerrard last season than I'd have to disagree with you.

I don't think Ireland's playing in a deep role, he's just playing in a more orthadox midfield role & isn't as good as a Lampard or Gerrard or Robson at knowing when to come forward & when to go back. It's the next stage of his development. They've all played many games in the same role & done it perfectly.

There's no point though in pretending Ireland has the abilities of a Lampard or Gerrard because he simply doesn't. You're talking about 2 of the best strikers of a ball in PL history. Ireland has a bit more craft & guile but as an attacking threat is smaller so cant get to headers like they do & nowhere even on the same planet as a threat when shooting. He has to find a job to do alongside players like that, where he can be just as valuable to the team. That's what's happening imo.

Can't agree with you mate. When gerrard was the same age as Ireland, he scored 4 league goals and didn't better him until 2 or 3 years ago. His 'graft' isn't the same as you say, so what exactly was Gerrard doing when he was the same age as Stevie then?

Gerrard used to play exactly the same role as Ireland has been asked to, as did Lampard. They've both spent a lot of of their careers as orthadox midfielders. Gerrard has even played DeJong's role at the back of midfield. They do what's required depending on who else is in the team & are always amongst the best in the world at doing it. That's the challenge for Ireland.

I'll give you another example; Paul Scholes. He plays wherever he's asked. One minute he's playing in front of the back 4 in a side with Ronaldo, Giggs, Rooney, Tevez etc the next he's playing behind Rooney with Carrick, Fletcher, Park etc behind him. He can sit in front of the back 4 & still score a hat-trick. That's the challenge & the level Ireland should aim for, not settle for being another Elano who can only play when the moon is in the correct allignment.