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The compare Shay and Big Joe thread got me thinking - who really deserves the accolade "City Legend"?

and perhaps a sub question what makes a "City Legend"

From before my time Trautman and Swift crop up as obvious - who else

Lee, Bell, Summerbee, Corrigan all shoe ins

Doyle, Crossan, Oakes - Im not sure

The Goat yes

Kinky? - i really dont know when I think about it - mercurial player no doubt - but only 3 seasons

Does Dunne do it? - not in my books - I dont think people in 20 years time will be recalling his prowess in a city shirt

Sweep? Ireland? - maybe one day

So thats just 7 definites - who else is a cast iron no debate needed legend?

I'm sure that many will disagree re Kinkladze but I'm 100% with you on that. Didn't do nearly enough to warrant the term legend.

Problem I have in giving any recent player the title legend (ie. one which entitles them to sit up there on a table with Trautmann, Swift, Summerbee, Bell, Lee, Doyle (I say yes) and (I'd also say for his efforts as player and (caretaker and) manager) Tony Book) is the fact that very few of the players in my time have helped the club achieve anything remotely noteworthy.

Kinky was fantastic to watch (at times) but mainly due to the terrible, terrible team (and period) in which his City days were placed. Bernarbia was a joy to watch, but in a first division side and only for a year or so in the twilight of his career. If I'm honest, Eyal Berkovic had a more meaningful contribution to City than Kinkaldze did.

Richard Dunne, he'd probably get in there due to the abnormality of his length of service for most people. Yes, he got POTY 4 times, but again, mainly in a pretty dreadful side.

Shaun and Stevie would certainly get into that category IF they help the club to success (many of the current team could join then IF we achieve anything with them involved).

in my lifetime dunne and goater, not sure about kinky yeah he was a genius yeah i loved him but 2 relegations in 3 years and queue the lowest point of our history means he prob isnt! Others in with a shout rosler, Andy morrison? Weaver?Dickov?Quinn?

Neil Young, Dennis Tueart, Paul Dickov all worthy of a shout out

From before me time, Swift, Trautmann, Paul, Clarke, Meredith, Ewing, Crossan.

1970's - Lee, Bell, Summerbee, Oakes, Young, Doyle, Corrigan, Owen, Barnes, Watson, Tueart.

1980's - Lake, Hutchinson, Gow, Power, Wilson, McNab

1990's - White, Quinn, Rosler, Kinkladze, Dickov, Morrison, Coton, Goater

2000's - Dunne, Horlock

We will see - SWP, Ireland, Barry, Given, Tevez, Robbie, Ade.

For me a legend, is someone who commits to the cause. Most of the guys in the 60's and 70's played for peanuts, for me they deserve the legend status.

Alan Oakes is a yes for me plus Willie Donachie, Niall Quinn and Paul Power

Would have thought that Tommy Booth deserves a shout somewhere along the line.

Kippax.

.

The Sheik has to be on the list,......or is this palyers only?

Eric Brook our highest ever goal scorer?

and Tommy Johnson (shared record)

Tony Book got to be in there. Captained our most successful team ever, won footballer of the year, cant remember another City player doing that. Its odd that all the usual suspects like Bell, Lee Summerbee etc get mentioned in that great side ( and rightly so) but not Book.

Dave Watson, Dennis Tueart, Alan Oakes, Nellie young ( two goal in wining cup final teams) others to consider.

Asa Hartford was the best midfielder in the country when he played for us (after King Colin was crocked).

Superb tackler. Unbelievable engine to be all over the pitch and still be going at 90 minutes (despite his hole in the heart condition). Hard bastard. Scored more than his fair share of goals.

Don Revie for the famous deep lying centre forward "Revie Plan", is deffo a leg end.

Mercer and Allison are leg ends.

Burt wrote:Asa Hartford was the best midfielder in the country when he played for us (after King Colin was crocked).

Superb tackler. Unbelievable engine to be all over the pitch and still be going at 90 minutes (despite his hole in the heart condition). Hard bastard. Scored more than his fair share of goals.

Don Revie for the famous deep lying centre forward "Revie Plan", is deffo a leg end.

Mercer and Allison are leg ends.

I agree with you, mate! My 1st City game was the UEFA Cup's round in San Siro against AC Milan and I was impressed from Asa's correct way of playing that day!

I didn't start going till late 90's and there hasn't been one LEGEND in that time, my opinion obviously but term legend is used too often and far too lightly.

Horlock,Morrison,Wiekens,Tiatto and Dickov and a whole host of other's like Dunne are all a very important part of our history but untill we start winning or atleast competing for honour's, i don't feel you can have a true legend.

Although if there had to be one for each decade then the Goat would be my choice but as much as i loved the guy in 20-30 years he'll only be remembered by us, where as Lee,Bell and Summerbee will be remembered by all and that for me is a real LEGEND.

rick1894citizen wrote:I didn't start going till late 90's and there hasn't been one LEGEND in that time, my opinion obviously but term legend is used too often and far too lightly.

Horlock,Morrison,Wiekens,Tiatto and Dickov and a whole host of other's like Dunne are all a very important part of our history but untill we start winning or atleast competing for honour's, i don't feel you can have a true legend.

Although if there had to be one for each decade then the Goat would be my choice but as much as i loved the guy in 20-30 years he'll only be remembered by us, where as Lee,Bell and Summerbee will be remembered by all and that for me is a real LEGEND.

I think a certain chuckle brother will remember the Goat

rick1894citizen wrote:I didn't start going till late 90's and there hasn't been one LEGEND in that time, my opinion obviously but term legend is used too often and far too lightly.

Horlock,Morrison,Wiekens,Tiatto and Dickov and a whole host of other's like Dunne are all a very important part of our history but untill we start winning or atleast competing for honour's, i don't feel you can have a true legend.

Although if there had to be one for each decade then the Goat would be my choice but as much as i loved the guy in 20-30 years he'll only be remembered by us, where as Lee,Bell and Summerbee will be remembered by all and that for me is a real LEGEND.

That certainly brings another side to discussion. I've followed City since mid-80's but have we really had anyone to call a legend in that era? I mean proper King of the Kippax Colin Bell type legend, not just players we liked but someone even opposition fans admire and admit is a legend? I mean I loved Quinn, Rosler, Kinkladze, Goater, Morrison, Dunne, Lake etc etc just as much as everyone else but did they do enough for the Club to be even mentioned same time with likes of Doyle, Bell, Trautmann, Summerbee etc?

I'm not saying either way as I'm not really sure what "legend" really stands for but I feel you are raising a good point here Rick. I DO agree with you though that word legend is tossed around way too easily these days. People seem to have problems separating "legend" from a "Cult Hero". I'd say most of my favourite players in my time supporting City have actually been latter rather than former. Imo you should achieve wider respect of footballing community to earn "legend" status. We have had legends playing for us though like Stuart Pearce for example but they weren't City legends.

The problem that both of you..and me for that matter...have with it is the only established legends can only be viewed in highlight reels and there is no defining criteria for what constitutes a legend.

Slim wrote:The problem that both of you..and me for that matter...have with it is the only established legends can only be viewed in highlight reels and there is no defining criteria for what constitutes a legend.

Exactly!

While Bell's highlights and stats speak for themselves and I've read all the books about Doyle, Buzzer and Trautmann and rest of them, truth is I never saw them week in week out. It's hard to say for me, and all of my generation of supporters, how good they really were.

What I DO know however was that players I adored as youngsters, and later as well, never could've gotten into really top sides and win things. Usually no one was even envious that these players played for us. Well apart from Colin Hendry maybe but he was such short time with us. Still can't believe we sold him FFS. We would've NEVER gone down if we had held on to him. Man was made to be City captain for a decade and hell.... maybe even a real legend.

rick1894citizen wrote:I didn't start going till late 90's and there hasn't been one LEGEND in that time, my opinion obviously but term legend is used too often and far too lightly.

Horlock,Morrison,Wiekens,Tiatto and Dickov and a whole host of other's like Dunne are all a very important part of our history but untill we start winning or atleast competing for honour's, i don't feel you can have a true legend.

Although if there had to be one for each decade then the Goat would be my choice but as much as i loved the guy in 20-30 years he'll only be remembered by us, where as Lee,Bell and Summerbee will be remembered by all and that for me is a real LEGEND.

I disagree with the part in bold, its like saying matt le tiss isnt a legend at southampton and clubs that dont win anything dont have any legends basically that only leaves the top 4 in england that are allowed legends, we won the championship but were not allowed have legends from that time?what about lower league clubs who win these divisions are they not entitled to have any legend players?

I do however agree with you in respect people have different opinions on what a legend is, mines pretty complicated to explain in words but yes i would class dunne as a city legend, someone who gave his all for a long period, someone who i could relate to, someone who i knew would more often than not dig us out of the shit, someone who did the club proud, someone who when having a debate in the pub you could say "weall at least we have x whos better than what you have in that position regardless of whther were shit or not" and so on, im supporting city around 16years, we haent had many quality players to look up to in that period, someone who as a kid i wanted to be on the street, as a defender dunne was that man, dickov also, kinky aswell sometimes if i was feeling fancy!!! My point been in a couple of years when i look back on my time as a city fan i will class dunne and a few others as legends as they are all i know....

Dubciteh wrote:
I disagree with the part in bold, its like saying matt le tiss isnt a legend at southampton and clubs that dont win anything dont have any legends basically that only leaves the top 4 in england that are allowed legends, we won the championship but were not allowed have legends from that time?what about lower league clubs who win these divisions are they not entitled to have any legend players?

My point been in a couple of years when i look back on my time as a city fan i will class dunne and a few others as legends as they are all i know....

I see where you're coming from but I disagree I have to say.

Le Tissier is a legend at Southampton for two main reasons 1) that he was sheer class but 2) that he refused to jump ship for a bigger paypacket/club/fame.

He's a funny one in that he's like a cult hero but with genuine top level talent.

I WOULD actually say that most clubs' "legends" are those who have helped them win things (and/or those who have been deemed legends retrospectively with the benefit of hindsight).

Ask Aston Villa fans, for example, who their legends are. And I bet you won't get many names since they conquered Europe in 1982...legend status and success go hand in hand for me.

As Antti said above, I think the line between true legend and cult hero is often blurred in many fans minds.

Shaun Goater is the latter. Despite the fact that I'd like to think of him as being a legend, I know in my heart of hearts that to place him on a pedestal (from a playing perspective) alongside the likes of Colin Bell is just plain wrong (and Shaun I'm sure would be the first to agree to this himself).

Same goes for Richard Dunne.