Nicolas Otamendi

[mr_nool]

Well with the amount of whinging whenever a u20 player fails to get subbed on or included in the squad is crazy on here. Even when we sign a world class CB (in the position we were weakest last season) people whinge because Denayer won't get a chance.

We are making big moves forward as a club and too many people have a small time mindset. If the youth are good enough they'll play. Look at Nacho now part of the squad as an example after only really being here for 6 months. And Denayers gonna get some great experience in France.

Too many positives on all front for me to have patience with nitpickers and moaners. When you whinge about youth when we sign a world class player; get your head out of the sand and look at the bigger picture.

I think people are rightly wanting to see some youth coming through. It's exciting to see people make that transition, knowing they've been with the club since they were teenagers. I do agree with you that the Otamendi signing is fabstacular but I think a lot of people (including me) had little or no idea who he was before we signed him. Might have contributed a bit perhaps. I reckon that when people see him play there will be little moaning anyway :).

I also blame the pre-season tour. It is a fucking snooze-fest. The only thing to get ones interest up is seeing how the kids are getting along. That combined with Twosip's excellent reports made me at least a bit overenthusiastic in regards to youth players being brought through.

[PrezIke]

thank you, a sensible post.

i agree with your first paragraph. but i would question: "Top class defender"? yes he did make the La Liga team last season and i think also for the Copa America (could be wrong on that last one) but, if what im reading about this guy is correct, there were big doubts about him in his last season at Porto which is why they sold him for pennies for Valencia. Porto is fantastic at selling their talented assets for big money.yes he had a breakout season last year but i don't know if i would call him a top class defender as of now (although, i guess the 1 season thing could also be said about KDB…which is why the money Wolfsburg are demanding and are gonna get is absurd).

Sure, one season as a top defender, and that is always going to lead to being a minor risk, as with KDB, but it's hard to see someone suddenly go backwards unless there are reasons. Adjustment to culture and language can be one, but we are full of Argies and Spanish speakers. Quality of opposition, or acclimation to the physicality of the Premier League would not seem to be a huge issue as he succeeded against the best in La Liga and has the physical and mental attributes that should allow him to the same in England. As for form dropping, Sterling's became poor after he wanted to push for a move many have suspected. Otamendi's on Porto was allegedly similar. Also can be injuries (Otamendi is RARELY injured, according to transermrkt, the only time was when he missed 1 game last season), or odd things like loss of confidence (Vinnie) or change to/playing for a manager/club that doesn't suit them (Di Maria/KDB), but why would he drop off in quality? Sure, it's possible, but as is the case with all transfers.

The market is what it is, and we are who we are in it. We are not Barca, Real Madrid or Bayern, nor are we a London based team, so for now we are going to have to pay higher rates, especially since clubs know we have money. We do, and there is little we can do about it unless we plan to miss out on top or rising to the top players heading to those clubs instead. Wasn't some of the whinging from our fans about missing on Hazard that we decided to fuss about extra money for his father?

as for the 2nd paragraph, i guess defense was where we could strengthen (aside from CM). if this had happened in late July I would've probably agreed. but our defense looks good now. yes it could change but spending this kind of cash for "IF" scenarios seems like a rash move. plus, we don't have to spend. we could've pocketed the Negredo money and put it to use next season.

Our defence has looked good for 2 games, but is that really enough of a sample size to assume it will be all season when last season in particular it was often poor in key moments? I am a strong supporter of Vinnie and Mangala to do well, but between then and July I don't see how we should risk that when we have very high expectations to meet and a player of his quality is available. Also, do we really need to "pocket" the money? I don't think so, and Valencia couldn't pay us anyway, so that was part of the reason I suspect this came into the realm of possibility. It might have taken them years to pay it off, and that does us little good regarding FFP and our transfer budget in the upcoming windows.

yes it prevents him from going to our rivals but is that what City does now, buys players to stop them from going to our rivals? are we Roman stealing Willian from Spurs now? should've we have bought Darmian so United couldn't get him and would be forced to play Valencia at RB? we'd have RB depth and 3 talented players. should we have pushed through a move for Pedro so Chelsea or United couldn't get him? it'd give us depth or a replacement for Navas and for that kind of money Pedro could be a steal.

I'd also argue that if he wanted to go to United he would've. they were after him all summer and we only came in at the last minute. if he wanted to go he would've.

The point about him not going to our rivals is surely not the primary reason we signed him, of course, but an additional benefit. Maybe he didn't want to go to Utd, maybe it was something else. Chelsea are surely in the market for a defender, and you think they wouldn't want him if Everton remain firm on Stones this season? Arsenal have shown some better defending but some still question it's viability. What other quality central defenders are available? Hard to find them, and that's partially why this is almost a coup for us. We now have arguably the best combination of central defenders in the world now. If Mangala lives up to what he has shown, and Kompany can get back to close to his old self we will have a formidable lineup. Also, Vinnie is not getting any younger, and this allows for two defenders who already know each other from their partnership at Porto, performed well together at the highest level, and are now even better, to continue with us for years.

at some point in time City is going to have to commit to bringing through youth. i mean, hell, they spent so much money on the Academy they'd better start doing that.and now our most promising youngster--Denayer--is promoted to the first time and, according to his agent, promised to be one of the four center backs and then we swoop in on Otamendi. you don't want to scare off future young talent. yes we're all probably placing too much faith in Denayer at this point and he's prob a little raw but if our best prospect to date can't get a chance (yet) why should anyone else. yes, Martin will probably leave after this season and then we will have 4 really good center backs but how do you keep all of them happy? that was the case with our 4 forwards. either way, this move doesn't look good for City moving in a self-sustainable direction. again, just my 2¢. but what do i know, im a rag.

Yes we do, and that's why Iheanacho has been on the team sheet for both games, and Denayer once. He just signed a 5 year deal, so you think we are selling right now? No way. We want him as part of our future as well at this point, and if that means going on loan, or perhaps being the real 4th back he expected this season (putting Demi more as a backup holding midfielder) then that's what will happen. Our other academy products are not near enough the first team level yet as far as I understand, other than maybe Lopes. This takes time, so simply because we built the CFA (9 months ago!) doesn't suddenly mean everyone has to jump to the first team who's not ready. I have noticed this criticism regularly from comments in other articles whenever we sign someone, as if we should just throw academy players into the first team because we have a glossy new facility.

City is clearly committed over the long term to developing our own players, and yes not all of them will make it. Possibly even Denayer. We graduated he Lopes and Ihenacho for a reason. Clearly we thought they had a good chance to make the team and get some games. While two of them seem to have a better chance we are also not a team that can risk overly relying on youth when a better player is available, and the situation makes sense (i.e. all of the reasons we've already covered as to the reasons for and benefits of signing Otamendi). Had we signed Pogba, maybe we wouldn't have made this move and could have waited. Who knows, but I see this as a positive move for the future of the team.

[phips]

quality post.

while you did misunderstand a few things i said its no big deal.

now that Otamendi has signed and Delph and Fernando are healthy i don't think we will see a single youngster (Nacho) on the bench or get any playing time except for early cup matches. according to Manuel he wanted to buy a CB all summer. if that was the case, why promote Denayer? if it was in order to get him to resign then okay. we've been after KDB all summer supposedly. if that was the case, why promote both Lopes and Roberts? only 1, if that, would get time. i just think promoting these kids and acting like they're gonna get time and then pushing them aside for the shiny new top players gives off the wrong impression. obviously id rather have KDB over Lopes in the squad. im just confused by the club's thinking in this regard. maybe it was a backup in case we don't get KDB.

I never said Otamendi was a bad signing or that I didn't want him or that he didn't help our squad. i just said i was "underwhelmed" by it and that i kind of didn't understand it. but im not working for the club so thats to be expected. of course when i say something slightly negative or even just not positive about the club im immediately tarred and feathered--i couldn't care less but it does tend to clog up these threads.

[bigblue]

There's nothing small minded about wanting to see Denayer or Nacho get a few bits and pieces of game time, they're both exciting prospects. I'd say it was the exact opposite of small minded really.

It's small minded to complain about youth when we have world class players playing instead. It would be different if some bog standard defender was playing ahead of Denayer.

I'd love to see them get game time as well (especially Nacho). And if they're good enough they'll force their way in. But we shouldn't purposefully bench Bony or Aguero just to give Nacho time. It's a long season and if he has the talent, he'll take advantage of his eventual chances to play. But the constant whinging in the meantime is fucking annoying!!

Think of it like this: its not small minded to complain that you want a home cooked roast when all you get is a Mickey Ds hamburger. But it is ungrateful, small minded and fucking annoying to complain that you want your mother's roast when someone is serving you a 5 star luxury steak dinner!

[Slim]

Maybe I prefer a home cooked roast. Who are you to judge what a person prefers?

[bigblue]

Maybe I prefer a home cooked roast. Who are you to judge what a person prefers?

I love a home cooked roast as well. But if someone is providing you a $100 dinner for the same price, then the least you can do is to not complain!

I don't even know what that means "who are you to judge". Anyone can and will judge your opinion. It's a fact of life and how forums work on the internet.

As a side note (judgement time): You have more posts than anyone on here, without writing anything remotely interesting or memorable. Impressive really.

[Slim]

Maybe I prefer a home cooked roast. Who are you to judge what a person prefers?

I love a home cooked roast as well. But if someone is providing you a $100 dinner for the same price, then the least you can do is to not complain!

I don't even know what that means "who are you to judge". Anyone can and will judge your opinion. It's a fact of life and how forums work on the internet.

As a side note (judgement time): You have more posts than anyone on here, without writing anything remotely interesting or memorable. Impressive really.

Well that's a bit harsh. Although I don't have more posts than anyone I do have a lot of posts and for you to make that judgement I'd assume you've read them all, quite a feat and I do feel honoured, thank you. Lastly I am here to entertain myself, if you don't find my posts interesting then I can say from the bottom of my heart, I really don't care.

As for the actual topic you used an analogy and so do I. But because I didn't explain it to you like I would a child, you failed to understand the implication. Maybe I, maybe others would prefer we gave opportunities in the first team to youth players, maybe we don't want the ranks chocked full of expensive signings. Maybe it wouldn't work, maybe we'd lose a game or a season giving it a chance but if we did and it failed, I wouldn't be the one moaning at the end of the season...that'd be Carl.

But if it succeeded. Well the long term benefits not only for that player but the academy as a whole, showing then there's a path to the first team, well that's just incalculable.

[bigblue]

Well that's a bit harsh. Although I don't have more posts than anyone I do have a lot of posts and for you to make that judgement I'd assume you've read them all, quite a feat and I do feel honoured, thank you. Lastly I am here to entertain myself, if you don't find my posts interesting then I can say from the bottom of my heart, I really don't care.

As for the actual topic you used an analogy and so do I. But because I didn't explain it to you like I would a child, you failed to understand the implication. Maybe I, maybe others would prefer we gave opportunities in the first team to youth players, maybe we don't want the ranks chocked full of expensive signings. Maybe it wouldn't work, maybe we'd lose a game or a season giving it a chance but if we did and it failed, I wouldn't be the one moaning at the end of the season...that'd be Carl.

But if it succeeded. Well the long term benefits not only for that player but the academy as a whole, showing then there's a path to the first team, well that's just incalculable.

Appreciate the nice reply slim. My main point is that people on here are never consistent with their views, which leads to constant complaining.

We have a problem (defence, midfield, wherever), "We need to sign a world class player."
We have a youth player who shows a glimmer of promise, "Sub him on every game at the 70th minute."
We don't win a trophy for a year, "Enough fucking around spafia, sign someone big."
We have actual young players in the team who haven't come through our academy, "They can fuck off, we don't have time to wait around for them to come good."
We fail to get past the last 16 in the chumps leage, "Squad is a few level below the elite, serious quality needed to be brought in."
We make a few big signings and finally look like we can challenge on all fronts for trophies, "Get the youth in, I don't care about trophies, we're losing our soul."

[Sister of fu]

It's a very long season with the potential for us to play over 60 games. The kids will get their chance if they are good enough. We look like we want to push on all four fronts so i do expect to see the kids come in, it's up to them to perform.

First things first though, we need to win that title back and that should be our priority over everything but that's just my opinion.

[clippo22]

Well that's a bit harsh. Although I don't have more posts than anyone I do have a lot of posts and for you to make that judgement I'd assume you've read them all, quite a feat and I do feel honoured, thank you. Lastly I am here to entertain myself, if you don't find my posts interesting then I can say from the bottom of my heart, I really don't care.

As for the actual topic you used an analogy and so do I. But because I didn't explain it to you like I would a child, you failed to understand the implication. Maybe I, maybe others would prefer we gave opportunities in the first team to youth players, maybe we don't want the ranks chocked full of expensive signings. Maybe it wouldn't work, maybe we'd lose a game or a season giving it a chance but if we did and it failed, I wouldn't be the one moaning at the end of the season...that'd be Carl.

But if it succeeded. Well the long term benefits not only for that player but the academy as a whole, showing then there's a path to the first team, well that's just incalculable.

Appreciate the nice reply slim. My main point is that people on here are never consistent with their views, which leads to constant complaining.

We have a problem (defence, midfield, wherever), "We need to sign a world class player."
We have a youth player who shows a glimmer of promise, "Sub him on every game at the 70th minute."
We don't win a trophy for a year, "Enough fucking around spafia, sign someone big."
We have actual young players in the team who haven't come through our academy, "They can fuck off, we don't have time to wait around for them to come good."
We fail to get past the last 16 in the chumps leage, "Squad is a few level below the elite, serious quality needed to be brought in."
We make a few big signings and finally look like we can challenge on all fronts for trophies, "Get the youth in, I don't care about trophies, we're losing our soul."

That pretty much sums up this forum!

Problem is it's different people saying different things that you've mentioned. I don't think everyone on here changes their view all the time, but that is pretty much the cycle of the forum each season!

But if it wasn't what else would we talk about?

[phips]

Lastly I am here to entertain myself, if you don't find my posts interesting then I can say from the bottom of my heart, I really don't care.

As for the actual topic you used an analogy and so do I. But because I didn't explain it to you like I would a child, you failed to understand the implication. Maybe I, maybe others would prefer we gave opportunities in the first team to youth players, maybe we don't want the ranks chocked full of expensive signings. Maybe it wouldn't work, maybe we'd lose a game or a season giving it a chance but if we did and it failed, I wouldn't be the one moaning at the end of the season...that'd be Carl.

But if it succeeded. Well the long term benefits not only for that player but the academy as a whole, showing then there's a path to the first team, well that's just incalculable.

preach