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Rag_hater wrote:

City1970 wrote:

Rag_hater wrote:

bluej wrote:

Rag_hater wrote:I don't know who is right in this.I would say there is a lot more that can be heard from either side.If Javier wants to make a stand though,what else can he do.

He can continue to act professionally by training and playing for the club he is under contract to. If he didn't want to play for Liverpool this long he shouldn't have signed the contract.

Signing a contract doesn't mean you have to give up your rights.
And Liverpool or Spain.No contest

And by the same token, Liverpool, as depressing and hateful place that it is, have the right to expect this guy to honour the contract that he was so keen to sign when it gave him a load of dosh for singing, then a load more dosh deposited into his bank account every week. The moment he wants to break the contract his agent / minder bleat about the club holding him ransom, and it being very unfair on the player.

Sick of hearing about players and their rights, by agents and others, what about a football clubs right to keep the players who signed the contract in the first place, and they werent made to sign it with a gun being held to their heads.

this kind of behaviour by players like these, as well as players who think there above the law (ie nearly every player in the prem, especially those with a GB Passport), is the reason the most folk despise the modern day footballer.

What you or a club expect to happen and what actually does is totally different.And it looks to me as if Javier is rich enough to tell livefool to go and kiss his arse

I agree. All im saying its a bit much for a player to scream about not being allowed to do this, that or the other, yet when a club wants a bit of loyalty it costs them mega dosh, a fat contract, and the possibility of a player suddenly having his head turned by another fat signing on fee at a new club.

Contracts count for sod all, but a player cant complain if a club suddenly starts pissing them about, cos the chances are the very same player has done the same pissing about to the same club, to get the move/wages/perks in previous negotiations.

I think Milner is a positive example of how to do things...Wanted to join us but still put 100% into Villa whilst the move was being negotiated and the Villa fans respect him for that

Rag_hater wrote:

City1970 wrote:

Rag_hater wrote:

bluej wrote:

Rag_hater wrote:I don't know who is right in this.I would say there is a lot more that can be heard from either side.If Javier wants to make a stand though,what else can he do.

He can continue to act professionally by training and playing for the club he is under contract to. If he didn't want to play for Liverpool this long he shouldn't have signed the contract.

Signing a contract doesn't mean you have to give up your rights.
And Liverpool or Spain.No contest

And by the same token, Liverpool, as depressing and hateful place that it is, have the right to expect this guy to honour the contract that he was so keen to sign when it gave him a load of dosh for singing, then a load more dosh deposited into his bank account every week. The moment he wants to break the contract his agent / minder bleat about the club holding him ransom, and it being very unfair on the player.

Sick of hearing about players and their rights, by agents and others, what about a football clubs right to keep the players who signed the contract in the first place, and they werent made to sign it with a gun being held to their heads.

this kind of behaviour by players like these, as well as players who think there above the law (ie nearly every player in the prem, especially those with a GB Passport), is the reason the most folk despise the modern day footballer.

What you or a club expect to happen and what actually does is totally different.And it looks to me as if Javier is rich enough to tell livefool to go and kiss his arse

Yes, so if he wants to move to Barca, he should ask to have his contract terminated -> I imagine Liverpool will want some compensation for that though.

IanBishopsHaircut wrote:I think Milner is a positive example of how to do things...Wanted to join us but still put 100% into Villa whilst the move was being negotiated and the Villa fans respect him for that

Correct. There's no reason to disrespect the club & things can be a lot worse than the purgatory of kicking a ball around for 80k pw for a club that isn't your 1st choice. Even though the similar Fabregas saga leaves a bad taste in the mouth, at least he's getting on with his job rather than telling lies about his reasons for wanting to go & then downing tools. Mascherano is a disgrace.

What I don't understand in all of this, though, is why Liverpool has not sold him yet. Barca has made a reasonable offer, right? If they have, and it was known since last season that he wanted to go there and wasn't interested in staying in Liverpool, also considering that they have already bought a replacement in Poulsen and they need some money badly, why haven't they accepted the Barca offer yet and sent him on his way, sparing themselves and their fans all of this hassle?

CityFanFromRome wrote:What I don't understand in all of this, though, is why Liverpool has not sold him yet. Barca has made a reasonable offer, right? If they have, and it was known since last season that he wanted to go there and wasn't interested in staying in Liverpool, also considering that they have already bought a replacement in Poulsen and they need some money badly, why haven't they accepted the Barca offer yet and sent him on his way, sparing themselves and their fans all of this hassle?

As far as I know Barca have offered £12 million for a player Liverpool paid £20 million for.

You seem to have no empathy with the soul of football & the feelings of football supporters whatsoever. You just don't get it & probably never will. The behaviour of players like Mascherano & Robinho is not something that should be shrugged off & have random excuses made for it. It's wrong. Most genuine football supporters, whichever club they support, know that & feel cheated by that kind of behaviour. If it becomes the norm, a lot of people who love football will stop watching it with the same passion & fall out of love with it. I doubt you have even the slightest idea what I'm talking about.[/quote]








Your probably right on how fans feel.(i am a fan by the way just seems somethings I have a different perspective to you)
But I am lookin at (at least I think) from my experiences of how things happen in the real world.
Its alright having these high and moralistic views of how things would be in a perfect world.
Things never work like that.
Many things are wrong in this world,we just have to deal with each situation as it arises.

Rag_hater wrote:Your probably right on how fans feel.(i am a fan by the way just seems somethings I have a different perspective to you)
But I am lookin at (at least I think) from my experiences of how things happen in the real world.
Its alright having these high and moralistic views of how things would be in a perfect world.
Things never work like that.
Many things are wrong in this world,we just have to deal with each situation as it arises.

Everybody knows how things happen in the 'real world' we're not thick. Football is a special case. Without the supporters is ceases to exist in it's present form & becomes an armchair curiosity like Big Brother or the 'X' factor. Without the passion of the supporters, footballers are just a bunch of blokes kicking a ball around. The only reason they're paid so much is because of us & how much we're willing to care so much about what they do; we put up with their shit.

We know that the loyalties of footballers to their clubs are largely a thing of the past but the behaviour of players like Mascherano & Robinho is pushing the boundaries too far & it's time it was stopped.

Right, that's it then, I'm off home on full pay. Seeing as though my contract is not worth the paper it was written on I suppose I'm allowed to not bother training, working or even showing my face. That 12 month time bar from leaving is obviously nonsense, so I can go and get another position without working my notice; hopefully they'll pay me for it aswell as it might upset my feelings if they don't.

Life's a doddle really ;-)

I think the deterrent for players refusing to play or train needs looking at. Fining the likes of Mascherano two weeks pay for refusing to do his job is a drop in the ocean to the likes of him . If there were stronger sanctions in place, such as eight to twelve weeks fine for refusing to play or train then players like him might think twice about it.

Also any player who refuses to play could be banned for playing for any new club he signs for in the current or following transfer window for a prolonged period of time, say ten matches. This would make going on strike costly and counter productive. Would Barca be so keen to sign Mascherano if he couldn't turn out for them for ten games?

Murph wrote:I think the deterrent for players refusing to play or train needs looking at. Fining the likes of Mascherano two weeks pay for refusing to do his job is a drop in the ocean to the likes of him . If there were stronger sanctions in place, such as eight to twelve weeks fine for refusing to play or train then players like him might think twice about it.

Also any player who refuses to play could be banned for playing for any new club he signs for in the current or following transfer window for a prolonged period of time, say ten matches. This would make going on strike costly and counter productive. Would Barca be so keen to sign Mascherano if he couldn't turn out for them for ten games?

Definitely something like this needs doing. For every game he refuses to play, provided the club are acting correctly & not secretly negotiating to get rid, it could be a 5 game ban & a fine, with the money going to charity. He could be banned from ever playing against the reluctantly selling club too.

Rag_hater wrote:

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

Rag_hater wrote:

bluej wrote:

Rag_hater wrote:I don't know who is right in this.I would say there is a lot more that can be heard from either side.If Javier wants to make a stand though,what else can he do.

He can continue to act professionally by training and playing for the club he is under contract to. If he didn't want to play for Liverpool this long he shouldn't have signed the contract.

Signing a contract doesn't mean you have to give up your rights.And Liverpool or Spain.No contest

What fucking rights?
He is bound by contract to train and play for Liverpool and try and represent Club in positive manner in media. Hardly giving up your human fucking rights is it? I have some contractual obligations as well. If I didn't like them, then I shouldn't have ever signed it, right?

You make it sound like he is Aung San Suu Kyi.

You can't make someone do what they don't want to.As much of a little hitler you want to think of yourself.Contracts can be broken.There might be financial implications but thats a different matter.

LEGAL implications. Just ask Mutu whether a contract is a legally binding agreement or not.

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:http://www.teamtalk.com/news/2483/6338285/-Depressed-Masch-done-with-Reds-Messi

That got my fucking head boiling again. Not that I give two shits about Scousepool or Macherano but how fucking far away these modern players are from real life.

I mean, you sign a fucking multimega billion pound contract that will set you up for life. In exchange you may have to do certain things for limited period in your life like move to new country and learn a new language. And for your average 26 year old those would be very exiting things. But not for these fucking fannies. Many people would give their arm and leg to get to taste life like that. But these jokers have been brought up to "footballers lifestyle" and have no idea whatsoever how priviledged they are.

On top of that it has become a trend now that player "goes on strike" to force a move. That is absolutely fucking disgusting. Fair enough, you want to move elsewhere or better club but you should at least show some professionality and respect towards people who pay your wages, supporters, by doing your job as you always do.

The one thing I don't like is, when that player goes on strike, and behaves like a cunt, refusing to do his 'job'. The buying club still want to sign him (and invariably do), despite now being aware of his ill discipline. This player may well behave in the same way for them in the future. I don't think in the real world people could behave like that at their jobs, and still get a move to a better job elsewhere.

Steve wrote:

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:http://www.teamtalk.com/news/2483/6338285/-Depressed-Masch-done-with-Reds-Messi

That got my fucking head boiling again. Not that I give two shits about Scousepool or Macherano but how fucking far away these modern players are from real life.

I mean, you sign a fucking multimega billion pound contract that will set you up for life. In exchange you may have to do certain things for limited period in your life like move to new country and learn a new language. And for your average 26 year old those would be very exiting things. But not for these fucking fannies. Many people would give their arm and leg to get to taste life like that. But these jokers have been brought up to "footballers lifestyle" and have no idea whatsoever how priviledged they are.

On top of that it has become a trend now that player "goes on strike" to force a move. That is absolutely fucking disgusting. Fair enough, you want to move elsewhere or better club but you should at least show some professionality and respect towards people who pay your wages, supporters, by doing your job as you always do.

The one thing I don't like is, when that player goes on strike, and behaves like a cunt, refusing to do his 'job'. The buying club still want to sign him (and invariably do), despite now being aware of his ill discipline. This player may well behave in the same way for them in the future. I don't think in the real world people could behave like that at their jobs, and still get a move to a better job elsewhere.

Yet you see people shacking up with people who are cheating on their husbands/wives ... It's a pretty good analogy imo. It's up to you/to the buying club to work out whether it's a personality trait or if there are enough mitigating circumstances (the husband/wife lost interest in sex years ago/drinks and is abusive/there's no love left/I'm not gonna win any trophies if I stay with this shit club)

Rag_hater wrote:

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

Rag_hater wrote:

bluej wrote:

Rag_hater wrote:I don't know who is right in this.I would say there is a lot more that can be heard from either side.If Javier wants to make a stand though,what else can he do.

He can continue to act professionally by training and playing for the club he is under contract to. If he didn't want to play for Liverpool this long he shouldn't have signed the contract.

Signing a contract doesn't mean you have to give up your rights.And Liverpool or Spain.No contest

What fucking rights?
He is bound by contract to train and play for Liverpool and try and represent Club in positive manner in media. Hardly giving up your human fucking rights is it? I have some contractual obligations as well. If I didn't like them, then I shouldn't have ever signed it, right?

You make it sound like he is Aung San Suu Kyi.

You can't make someone do what they don't want to.As much of a little hitler you want to think of yourself.Contracts can be broken.There might be financial implications but thats a different matter.

"Little Hitler"???? Wow. You have no fucking idea how wrong you are. As a paid member of Finnish left wing alliance I wouldn't have thought anyone would ever call me Hitler. But there it is. You did it. Well done.

Regardless of that, if you sign a contract with certain details, you are suppose to honour the contract. He DOES still have options. As unfair as it would be for the Club, he is free to stop playing professional football and pursue another career. You know, I myself have been in a job where I had to sign an agreement that should I leave the job I wouldn't be allowed to work for direct competitor for two years. I didn't have to sign that deal. No one put gun in my head. My human rights weren't violated. I did actually get an offer from a competitor later but I wasn't going to break the contract I had made (and went on to take my career to different direction but that's whole another story).

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:As a paid member of Finnish left wing alliance

Is that like the peoples front of Judea?

IanBishopsHaircut wrote:

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:As a paid member of Finnish left wing alliance

Is that like the peoples front of Judea?

NO! We are Judean People's Front crack suicide squad!

Absolute classic!

"Little Hitler"???? Wow. You have no fucking idea how wrong you are. As a paid member of Finnish left wing alliance I wouldn't have thought anyone would ever call me Hitler. But there it is. You did it. Well done.

Regardless of that, if you sign a contract with certain details, you are suppose to honour the contract. He DOES still have options. As unfair as it would be for the Club, he is free to stop playing professional football and pursue another career. You know, I myself have been in a job where I had to sign an agreement that should I leave the job I wouldn't be allowed to work for direct competitor for two years. I didn't have to sign that deal. No one put gun in my head. My human rights weren't violated. I did actually get an offer from a competitor later but I wasn't going to break the contract I had made (and went on to take my career to different direction but that's whole another story).[/quote]


Alright Stalinist then.
Dont you not understand if somone is prepared to undertake whatever consequences may arise through the non-fulfilment of a contract then it does not matter what people say.And whatever draconian measures people dream up whether it be a ten game ban or even kiddnapping a players family fuckall will make a man back down if you rile him.Now Javier whether right or wrong has made his mind up.

Rag_hater wrote:
Alright Stalinist then.
Dont you not understand if somone is prepared to undertake whatever consequences may arise through the non-fulfilment of a contract then it does not matter what people say.And whatever draconian measures people dream up whether it be a ten game ban or even kiddnapping a players family fuckall will make a man back down if you rile him.Now Javier whether right or wrong has made his mind up.

Stalinist, eh?

And rest of that crap makes no fucking sense to me. He is FREE to walk out of his contract and never to play professional football again. Absolutely free. No one can or will stop him if that's what he wants to do. But that's not the case here is it? He wants sunnier climate and probably even more wages and THAT is why he isn't honouring his contract. Out of pure greed.

And as someone already said to you, contract is LEGALLY binding document. Similar to any other contract you make in your life. Surely if you own your house, you wouldn't be best pleased if the person who sold you the house came one day and threw your family out and still kept the money? But he can't do that because you have a contract. Even if "he makes his mind about it".

But yeah, I think you are just winding people up for the sake of it.

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

Rag_hater wrote:
Alright Stalinist then.
Dont you not understand if somone is prepared to undertake whatever consequences may arise through the non-fulfilment of a contract then it does not matter what people say.And whatever draconian measures people dream up whether it be a ten game ban or even kiddnapping a players family fuckall will make a man back down if you rile him.Now Javier whether right or wrong has made his mind up.

Stalinist, eh?

And rest of that crap makes no fucking sense to me. He is FREE to walk out of his contract and never to play professional football again. Absolutely free. No one can or will stop him if that's what he wants to do. But that's not the case here is it? He wants sunnier climate and probably even more wages and THAT is why he isn't honouring his contract. Out of pure greed.

And as someone already said to you, contract is LEGALLY binding document. Similar to any other contract you make in your life. Surely if you own your house, you wouldn't be best pleased if the person who sold you the house came one day and threw your family out and still kept the money? But he can't do that because you have a contract. Even if "he makes his mind about it".

But yeah, I think you are just winding people up for the sake of it.

Get real.