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Ted Hughes wrote:For anyone who can be arsed, here's a pretty honest even handed piece from an Italian football site, written when Mancini 1st came, which describes Mancini's Inter systems & I think predicts his subsequent moves pretty accurately & fits with what we've seen so far. It gives us an idea of how it could work & imo puts DeJong down as a 1st choice for most of the season.

johnpb78 wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:For anyone who can be arsed, here's a pretty honest even handed piece from an Italian football site, written when Mancini 1st came, which describes Mancini's Inter systems & I think predicts his subsequent moves pretty accurately & fits with what we've seen so far. It gives us an idea of how it could work & imo puts DeJong down as a 1st choice for most of the season.

Good find that, surely Cambiasso, Zanetti and Vieira were regarded as good footballers rather than an angry bloke running around passing the ball to the opposition.

I find it hard to believe that De Jong has the ability to fulfil the role Mancini expected of the 3 above. He wastes possession so much after doing the good work in the tackle, I think he is still one who will/may end up being replaced sooner rather than later.

Slim wrote:Hart
Boateng--Toure--Kompany--Kolarov
Johnson--Toure--Milner--Silva
Tevez--Balotelli

or

Hart
Boateng--Toure--Kompany--Kolarov
Toure--Milner--de Jong
Tevez--Balotelli--Silva


I would say Barry has drawn the short straw here. However, with that lineup we are one game in and already have 2 injuries, so I am not sure over the course of a 60 game season that it will be a problem with Barry, de Jong and Milner getting games.

john@staustell wrote:

mcfc1632 wrote:

john@staustell wrote:

mcfc1632 wrote:From the Spurs game - it will be SWP

7th post in before someone states the obvious.

Also when can we get away from this 'first 11' nonsense? It is a squad, and Mancini has made it very clear it will be used as such.

Sorry John if it caused offence - I am just an old-fashioned sort of chap and chose to directly answer the question posed in the thread title - will try to do better in the future!!

I tried to add to the wider debate by posting what I thought was a decent assessment of the 1st 11

There aint one mate. But that aside I meant how many people were replying about Barry etc without stating the obvious SWP?!! It's beyond me what game some folk watch. GB is usually just about 1st on the City (unless rested) and England sheets, because of all the tidy, neat work he does which seemingly goes mostly un-noticed by fans of both entities. He was extremely tidy against Spurs, sweeping up, very neat on the ball and yet always gets low marks. Managers seem to appreciate him thankfully.

I sincerely believe though that the 'first 11' at home to, say, W Brom, will not be the first 11 away at Spuds.

A lot of these players now should have a field day in some games. But then I thought that when we signed Rodney Marsh!

johnpb78 wrote:

Rag_hater wrote:

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:If it's Barry, I feel we are going to right direction. If it's De Jong, it's great step towards more positive football.

If it's one of the wingers then this was pointless transfer.

You really do talk through your bottom sometimes.

Correct about De Jong, but absolutely wrong in the case of SWP.

I hate to say it, but if he doesnt buck up, things could turn sour for him this season.

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

johnpb78 wrote:

Rag_hater wrote:

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:If it's Barry, I feel we are going to right direction. If it's De Jong, it's great step towards more positive football.

If it's one of the wingers then this was pointless transfer.

You really do talk through your bottom sometimes.

Correct about De Jong, but absolutely wrong in the case of SWP.

I hate to say it, but if he doesnt buck up, things could turn sour for him this season.

I wasn't talking about SWP as such. But if we take one of the attacking wingers off and put Milner in with three defensive midfielders, it will not improve our play one iota. However if we replace either De Jong or Barry with Milner, we will have replaced either fairly negative or very negative player with a positive player.

johnpb78 wrote:

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

johnpb78 wrote:

Rag_hater wrote:

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:If it's Barry, I feel we are going to right direction. If it's De Jong, it's great step towards more positive football.

If it's one of the wingers then this was pointless transfer.

You really do talk through your bottom sometimes.

Correct about De Jong, but absolutely wrong in the case of SWP.

I hate to say it, but if he doesnt buck up, things could turn sour for him this season.

I wasn't talking about SWP as such. But if we take one of the attacking wingers off and put Milner in with three defensive midfielders, it will not improve our play one iota. However if we replace either De Jong or Barry with Milner, we will have replaced either fairly negative or very negative player with a positive player.

If we replaced SWP with a player who can make the right decisions about making a pass when he needs to, dribble when he needs to, and cross from anywhere, that would be a huge improvement in my book.

Ted Hughes wrote:

johnpb78 wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:For anyone who can be arsed, here's a pretty honest even handed piece from an Italian football site, written when Mancini 1st came, which describes Mancini's Inter systems & I think predicts his subsequent moves pretty accurately & fits with what we've seen so far. It gives us an idea of how it could work & imo puts DeJong down as a 1st choice for most of the season.

Good find that, surely Cambiasso, Zanetti and Vieira were regarded as good footballers rather than an angry bloke running around passing the ball to the opposition.

I find it hard to believe that De Jong has the ability to fulfil the role Mancini expected of the 3 above. He wastes possession so much after doing the good work in the tackle, I think he is still one who will/may end up being replaced sooner rather than later.

DeJong's not a great creater but his stats for ball retention are actually better than 90 odd% of anybody we've got or possibly 100%. It's a bit of a myth that he always gives the ball away as he actually almost never gives the ball away.

DoomMerchant wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

johnpb78 wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:For anyone who can be arsed, here's a pretty honest even handed piece from an Italian football site, written when Mancini 1st came, which describes Mancini's Inter systems & I think predicts his subsequent moves pretty accurately & fits with what we've seen so far. It gives us an idea of how it could work & imo puts DeJong down as a 1st choice for most of the season.

Good find that, surely Cambiasso, Zanetti and Vieira were regarded as good footballers rather than an angry bloke running around passing the ball to the opposition.

I find it hard to believe that De Jong has the ability to fulfil the role Mancini expected of the 3 above. He wastes possession so much after doing the good work in the tackle, I think he is still one who will/may end up being replaced sooner rather than later.

DeJong's not a great creater but his stats for ball retention are actually better than 90 odd% of anybody we've got or possibly 100%. It's a bit of a myth that he always gives the ball away as he actually almost never gives the ball away.

i also find the notion that De Jong gives the ball away to be tiresome. He is challenged when football isn't played mostly on the floor, and isn't challenged to make a simple pass. People were reacting to the Spurs game like "it looks like his passing has improved." He was the exact same NDJ as ever for me. i dunno...

cheers

I find that it is much more tiresome when you watch him misplace simple passes again and again. He misplaced 8 on Saturday, not the worst in the team by any stretch, as that was Barry who misplaced 13.

johnpb78 wrote:

DoomMerchant wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

johnpb78 wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:For anyone who can be arsed, here's a pretty honest even handed piece from an Italian football site, written when Mancini 1st came, which describes Mancini's Inter systems & I think predicts his subsequent moves pretty accurately & fits with what we've seen so far. It gives us an idea of how it could work & imo puts DeJong down as a 1st choice for most of the season.

Good find that, surely Cambiasso, Zanetti and Vieira were regarded as good footballers rather than an angry bloke running around passing the ball to the opposition.

I find it hard to believe that De Jong has the ability to fulfil the role Mancini expected of the 3 above. He wastes possession so much after doing the good work in the tackle, I think he is still one who will/may end up being replaced sooner rather than later.

DeJong's not a great creater but his stats for ball retention are actually better than 90 odd% of anybody we've got or possibly 100%. It's a bit of a myth that he always gives the ball away as he actually almost never gives the ball away.

i also find the notion that De Jong gives the ball away to be tiresome. He is challenged when football isn't played mostly on the floor, and isn't challenged to make a simple pass. People were reacting to the Spurs game like "it looks like his passing has improved." He was the exact same NDJ as ever for me. i dunno...

cheers

I find that it is much more tiresome when you watch him misplace simple passes again and again. He misplaced 8 on Saturday, not the worst in the team by any stretch, as that was Barry who misplaced 13.

The difference is that the singular lack of ambition in De Jong's passing means that 8 x 5 yard passes to feet being intercepted or going straight to the opposition is rather noticeable, wheras other players who misplace passes may be being a touch more ambitious than a pass to the man stood right in front / next of you.

mcfc1632 wrote:From the Spurs game - it will be SWP

I think that there will be only a few 'permanent' fixtures in the team, and those in order of appearances (assuming fit) will be:

Hart and Ya Ya

Kolarov

NDJ and Tevez

The system that we will play will demand 1 'out and out' DM - NDJ is one of the best in the world and the only one we have - IMO - despite what a lot of other posters think

Going forward I think that we will see this sort of formation as 1st choice:

--------------Hart------------------
-Boateng--Toure--Kompany--Kolarov-
-------------De Jong----------------
---------Milner---Toure-------------
Silva------------------------Balotelli-
-------------Tevez------------------

with Ade and Johnson coming on regularly during the game as we mix it up and good cover in all positions in the squad

brite blu sky wrote:

I find that it is much more tiresome when you watch him misplace simple passes again and again. He misplaced 8 on Saturday, not the worst in the team by any stretch, as that was Barry who misplaced 13.

did you count these john ? Because the opti stats say that de Jong misplaced 4 out of 59 passes. and Barry misplaced 3 out of the same number 59. Incidently Yaya misplaced 2 out of 70. So if we can rely on those stats? it suggests there is not too much difference between the 3 of them.

I know stats dont tell you how someone plays, but equally they help give perspective on what we all think we see during a game.

johnpb78 wrote:

brite blu sky wrote:

I find that it is much more tiresome when you watch him misplace simple passes again and again. He misplaced 8 on Saturday, not the worst in the team by any stretch, as that was Barry who misplaced 13.

did you count these john ? Because the opti stats say that de Jong misplaced 4 out of 59 passes. and Barry misplaced 3 out of the same number 59. Incidently Yaya misplaced 2 out of 70. So if we can rely on those stats? it suggests there is not too much difference between the 3 of them.

I know stats dont tell you how someone plays, but equally they help give perspective on what we all think we see during a game.

Well thats what the O/S says, and the O/S is using the same figure for Yaya Toure that sky used over the weekend which showed him 2nd only to Scholes in accuracy of passing, so someone's not telling the truth

johnpb78 wrote:

brite blu sky wrote:

I find that it is much more tiresome when you watch him misplace simple passes again and again. He misplaced 8 on Saturday, not the worst in the team by any stretch, as that was Barry who misplaced 13.

did you count these john ? Because the opti stats say that de Jong misplaced 4 out of 59 passes. and Barry misplaced 3 out of the same number 59. Incidently Yaya misplaced 2 out of 70. So if we can rely on those stats? it suggests there is not too much difference between the 3 of them.

I know stats dont tell you how someone plays, but equally they help give perspective on what we all think we see during a game.

Well thats what the O/S says, and the O/S is using the same figure for Yaya Toure that sky used over the weekend which showed him 2nd only to Scholes in accuracy of passing with 90 passes I think it was

http://www.mcfc.co.uk/Players/Midfielders/Nigel-de-Jong 61/69
http://www.mcfc.co.uk/Players/Midfielders/Yaya-Toure 84/90
http://www.mcfc.co.uk/Players/Midfielders/Gareth-Barry 65/71 (I misread that before sorry)

Therefore he WAS statistically the worst passer in the midfield, the O/S would surely have no reason to misreport this?

MBash721 wrote:

mcfc1632 wrote:From the Spurs game - it will be SWP

I think that there will be only a few 'permanent' fixtures in the team, and those in order of appearances (assuming fit) will be:

Hart and Ya Ya

Kolarov

NDJ and Tevez

The system that we will play will demand 1 'out and out' DM - NDJ is one of the best in the world and the only one we have - IMO - despite what a lot of other posters think

Going forward I think that we will see this sort of formation as 1st choice:

--------------Hart------------------
-Boateng--Toure--Kompany--Kolarov-
-------------De Jong----------------
---------Milner---Toure-------------
Silva------------------------Balotelli-
-------------Tevez------------------

with Ade and Johnson coming on regularly during the game as we mix it up and good cover in all positions in the squad

I would think that they're not going to waste Balotelli on the wing. I think hes the big target striker that they need up top. Tevez would seem like a bitter fit on the wing.

A little picky, but wouldn't Silva be on the opposite side? I feel like he primarily plays as a left wing, but I could be mistaken