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This is spot on from Martin Samuel.

Champions League draw is a tedious and bent travesty that rewards the mediocre old-guard instead of domestic champions

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... z3Bjgs4TzC

Pick the bones out of this: http://infostradalive.com/2014/08/28/an ... -of-death/

Basically, out of all the draw permutations available to us, we came closer than all but three teams to the worst possible draw. Those three teams are our Group E opponents.

Stitch up.

Michigan Blue wrote:Pick the bones out of this: http://infostradalive.com/2014/08/28/an ... -of-death/

Basically, out of all the draw permutations available to us, we came closer than all but three teams to the worst possible draw. Those three teams are our Group E opponents.

Stitch up.

what are the actual odds of that? i mean....seriously. I guess at some level it would HAVE to be true that a group of death got the worst hand dealt to it, but on a scenario basis of the worst possible scenario analysis...all four of them in the same group?

It's really comical. Like i said earlier....Pot 1 is the only way through this competition, and even then it's no cakewalk...unless your owner is a Russian mafioso who knows how to grease the system with bungs and threats and whatever the fucl else he might, allegedly, do.

cheers

Sideshow Bob wrote:This is spot on from Martin Samuel.

Champions League draw is a tedious and bent travesty that rewards the mediocre old-guard instead of domestic champions

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... z3Bjgs4TzC

He is spot on as per usual..one of the very few journos that speaks the truth.

Champions League draw is a tedious and bent travesty that rewards the mediocre old-guard instead of domestic champions
Manchester City to face Bayern Munich, CSKA Moscow and Roma
Liverpool handed Real Madrid test as well as Basle and Ludogorets
Arsenal in Group D with Borussia Dortmund, Galatasaray and Anderlecht
Chelsea to play German side Schalke as well as Sporting Lisbon and Maribor
By MARTIN SAMUEL - SPORT
PUBLISHED: 21:32 GMT, 28 August 2014 | UPDATED: 22:11 GMT, 28 August 2014


So here comes another one, just like the other one. The best team in England have the toughest Champions League draw. Again.
Manchester City will play Bayern Munich. Again. And CSKA Moscow. Again. Meanwhile, Arsenal meet Borussia Dortmund and Chelsea face Schalke 04. Again, again.
Each tie listed here is a repeat of last year’s pairings. It is so tame, so predictable. When will UEFA sort out the abomination that is their seeding system?

For a body so keen on fairness, the concept goes out of the window whenever the dead hand of UEFA reaches for its little balls in bowls.
The elite are protected so that Arsenal, who last won the title in 2004 and needed to pre-qualify this year, are shielded from the toughest opposition, while Manchester City, reigning champions with two title wins in three years, must again climb a mountain to reach the later stages.
It is warped. Bent in favour of the established elite so that there were more champions in pots B and D than in marquee pot A. This produces ferociously unfair match-ups.
Every team in Group A, for instance, are national champions — Atletico Madrid, Juventus, Olympiacos and Malmo — while Arsenal and Chelsea have to contend with a single league winner apiece, Anderlecht of Belgium for Arsene Wenger, Maribor of Slovenia for Chelsea.
Manchester City face Bayern Munich and CSKA Moscow, champions of Germany and Russia.

The whole process reeks of protectionism. Michel Platini, UEFA president, says he will address this at the next Champions League summit, but then bleats that he needs the permission of the clubs to change. He means the old, rich ones of course — it is not as if the others matter.
The co-efficient rankings that are used to insure the most powerful against their mediocrity could equally be used to implement a fairer competition. UEFA’s points system also reveals the identity of the strongest leagues in club competition — currently Spain, England, Germany, Portugal, Italy, Russia and France.
So the champions of those countries should be the seven top seeds, plus the Champions League holders. This would create a more egalitarian pot A, comprising Atletico Madrid, Manchester City, Bayern Munich, Benfica, Juventus, CSKA Moscow, Paris Saint Germain and Real Madrid. Fairer already.

Pot B would then be taken from the champions of the next eight leagues off the rank, if they had qualified – meaning Ukraine (Shakhtar Donetsk), Holland (Ajax), Belgium (Anderlecht), Switzerland (Basle) and Greece (Olympiacos), plus the second-placed teams from Spain (Barcelona), England (Liverpool) and Germany (Borussia Dortmund).
Using this system, pot C would be Malmo, BATE Borisov, Apoel Nicosia, Sporting Lisbon, Roma, Zenit St Petersburg, Monaco and Chelsea, and pot D the remainder, including Arsenal and Bayer Leverkusen, who cannot surely expect to come fourth and be seeded any higher. That way there would be genuine movement in the rankings, and fresh match-ups each year.
And, yes, under that system Manchester City could end up with Olympiacos, Apoel Nicosia and Ludogorets Razgrad and Arsenal with Real Madrid, Ajax and Roma — but as one team won its league and the other came fourth, why should it be any other way? This is the Champions League. That title should mean something.

Instead, domestic success counts for nothing and the same teams meet year after year, often with the same results.
This is the third time in four seasons that Manchester City will have faced Bayern Munich at the group stage, and the same applies to Arsenal and Borussia Dortmund. How is that healthy, or compelling?
When the Champions League began it felt exotic and new, now the group stage only gets interesting if one of the big boys messes up.
It is a routine revenue-generating process, there to fill TV primetime and only undertaken as a means to an end.
We know the serious stuff begins after Christmas, once a free draw heralds the arrival of the knock-out stage.
Deep down, that is what football’s establishment fears, of course: not being good enough, not being up to the test.
It is to UEFA’s shame that they then indulge this naked protectionism. Either Platini is complacent, or foolish; probably both.

I am not sure if Martin Samuel is an exceptional journalist or if it's just he seems very pro-City/Chelsea and I just like it too much to question it.

One thing for sure, he is the only one who writes from this perspective on a regular basis and he comes across as very rational and measured in his points.

DoomMerchant wrote:

Michigan Blue wrote:Pick the bones out of this: http://infostradalive.com/2014/08/28/an ... -of-death/

Basically, out of all the draw permutations available to us, we came closer than all but three teams to the worst possible draw. Those three teams are our Group E opponents.

Stitch up.

what are the actual odds of that? i mean....seriously. I guess at some level it would HAVE to be true that a group of death got the worst hand dealt to it, but on a scenario basis of the worst possible scenario analysis...all four of them in the same group?

It basically means it's a particularly deadly Group of Death (far worse than any groups last season, for instance).

The only reason the draw was even worse for the other three is that they are just maybe the worst draws we could have had from Pots 1, 3, and 4, whereas we were definitely the worst case scenario from Pot 2 for all of them.

Personally the repetitive fixtures are just as irritating as the difficulty of the group. The only fresh faces we've been drawn against will probably end up with some Blues being stabbed.

I wouldn't have wanted to face Real this early on, so at least we have some familiarity with Bayern, plus we have beaten them. As for pot 4, I wouldn't want Monaco so Roma is a small consolation on that front, but I would have loved a minnow in the group to make the road a touch easier.

The Italian penchant for cowardly stabbings is a worry.

But on the field we are looking win every match now. So no problem.

Confirmation again football is as bent as it gets. A dozen clubs or so carving up for years,we are not members or French so we the shitty end.

At least we can take pleasure from the bent Bavarian cunts probably not loving the draw either ...

Bavarians, Romans and Muscovites DESPAIR!!!

Slim wrote:I am not sure if Martin Samuel is an exceptional journalist or if it's just he seems very pro-City/Chelsea and I just like it too much to question it.

One thing for sure, he is the only one who writes from this perspective on a regular basis and he comes across as very rational and measured in his points.

I believe it's more a case of him being anti-establishment than pro anything.

The thing that bugs me about the coefficient system is that domestic performance has no bearing, it's nonsense.

Take for example international football, every game you play counts towards your seeding, why should it be different for club football?

Stuart Brennan tweeted that if we get to quarters or beyond then we could be in pot one next year. Anyone more familiar with coefficients than me able to shed more light on this?

Bayern Munich sneer arrogantly & slap their leather glove across the face of the 'Group Of Death'.

It's time City chucked its pint in the face of, & kicked the 'Group Of Death' in the bollocks. (Then stamped on it's head whilst it's on the floor).

I fear the impact our pursuit of the Champions League will have on our chances of winning the league this year. We might end up with nish because of it.

Peter Doherty (AGAIG) wrote:I fear the impact our pursuit of the Champions League will have on our chances of winning the league this year. We might end up with nish because of it.

It's another way the advantage works in favour of the cartel clubs. They have less tough games; more likelihood of being in better shape to do well at the weekend.

We do have a better squad to deal with it this year. That nasty period of Arse, Bayern, Chelsea has a decent chance of costing us points in at least one competition though.

Imo, we took risks on players last year in the other competitions. Playing Zabba in the League Cup at Leicester & Negredo at West Ham, were stinker decisions imo & almost cost us.

Peter Doherty (AGAIG) wrote:I fear the impact our pursuit of the Champions League will have on our chances of winning the league this year. We might end up with nish because of it.

I remember seeing something along these lines last year.

We won two pots and will win another this year.

IMHO LEGIA fans have it bang on.
https://twitter.com/BetVictor/status/50 ... 88/photo/1

lets all have a disco wrote:

Peter Doherty (AGAIG) wrote:I fear the impact our pursuit of the Champions League will have on our chances of winning the league this year. We might end up with nish because of it.

I remember seeing something along these lines last year.

We won two pots and will win another this year.

IMHO LEGIA fans have it bang on.
https://twitter.com/BetVictor/status/50 ... 88/photo/1

Our main rivals this year are Chelsea. They can field a second-string team in their Champions League games and avoid tiredness and injuries to their players. Consequently, they can also field their strongest team in the league games during the Champions League group stages helping them to get a points advantage that if it becomes too great may be irretrievable over the rest of the season. For example, we play them after we've been away to Bayern and they've had a home game against some piece of shit. We'll be playing our best team they'll be resting one or two or three important players for them. That games becomes a seriously difficult one for us to win. (Worse case scenario, admittedly)

Ted Hughes wrote:

Peter Doherty (AGAIG) wrote:I fear the impact our pursuit of the Champions League will have on our chances of winning the league this year. We might end up with nish because of it.

It's another way the advantage works in favour of the cartel clubs. They have less tough games; more likelihood of being in better shape to do well at the weekend.

We do have a better squad to deal with it this year. That nasty period of Arse, Bayern, Chelsea has a decent chance of costing us points in at least one competition though.

Imo, we took risks on players last year in the other competitions. Playing Zabba in the League Cup at Leicester & Negredo at West Ham, were stinker decisions imo & almost cost us.

I'd like to see us use more of our kids in the cup games Ted, but I wouldn't put money on The Count doing it..

Peter Doherty (AGAIG) wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

Peter Doherty (AGAIG) wrote:I fear the impact our pursuit of the Champions League will have on our chances of winning the league this year. We might end up with nish because of it.

It's another way the advantage works in favour of the cartel clubs. They have less tough games; more likelihood of being in better shape to do well at the weekend.

We do have a better squad to deal with it this year. That nasty period of Arse, Bayern, Chelsea has a decent chance of costing us points in at least one competition though.

Imo, we took risks on players last year in the other competitions. Playing Zabba in the League Cup at Leicester & Negredo at West Ham, were stinker decisions imo & almost cost us.

I'd like to see us use more of our kids in the cup games Ted, but I wouldn't put money on The Count doing it..

Probably won't need loads of them, just a few in order to take the weight off whichever positions are under most pressure with injuries etc. Last year we only had one fit rightback, & got him injured playing in the league cup when he was shagged out.

None of that this season please, your Countship.