Denayer, Iheanacho and Lopes to be promoted

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Re: Denayer, Iheanacho and Lopes to be promoted

Postby Mikhail Chigorin » Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:55 pm

C & C wrote:I won't disagree with that. But, all of our CB's are playing in the same system and Kompany has looked decisively worse than our other CB's over the last season.

As you say, "we should be working much harder to win the ball back, & passing it better, so Kompany etc don't have to do so much defending imo." -- then the system will be easier on whomever is at the back. That doesn't mean Kompany will fit better into it than others. And others may be more suited to play this system.

Kompany is at his best when the middle is clogged and attacks have to come from the wings. His positional sense is better and he can dominate aerially. He's probably at his worst defending the counterattack, admittedly a much harder thing to do.


Your last paragraph is very salient to this entire discussion, but I wouldn't want City to alter our style of play, just to cater for Kompany's perceived weaknesses and flaws.

I can accept us having a less than watertight defence/defensive record if we're scoring a load of goals at the other end - and I also like our defenders to weigh in with a few efforts of their own in this respect.

On that basis, it would be most unreasonable to expect our back line to somehow be stellar performers and keep clean sheets galore when there are different stresses, situations and demands being made of them and, given our more cavalier style of play, we're always going to concede in any game. However, All I'm asking for is a basic degree of competence to be exhibited in this area of the pitch by whomsoever is selected to play there.

Unfortunately, Kompany - for various reasons quoted already - seems now to have fallen short of the level of basic competence we all wish for and if, in the meantime, he is unable to address the faults in his game and adapt to Pelegrini's requirements, - and quickly - then he potentially has no future at City, however unpalatable this might seem to us all.

For my own pessimistic money, I don't think he can adapt and, accordingly, I fear his days with us are duly numbered.
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Re: Denayer, Iheanacho and Lopes to be promoted

Postby C & C » Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:57 pm

Not forgetting at all. When the play is in front of him, even when he's halfway between the 18 and midfield, he reads the game really well and has great anticipation. Like I said earlier I'm a big fan of his and really am not trying to attack him. I'm looking for an honest discussion (though at this stage maybe it should be in a different thread).
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Re: Denayer, Iheanacho and Lopes to be promoted

Postby freshie » Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:08 pm

Hazy2 wrote:
Ted Hughes wrote:I don't think the other defenders are better at defending counter attacks. Denayer may be. I think
people are forgetting just how well Kompany has played for City. One v one was often when he was at his most impressive. Nobody would have swapped him for Demichelis. There was a time when we won most games if he played & got beat if he didn't.

He is now being asked to come out & try to nick the ball or sometimes even follow the striker right to the halfway line & he sometimes gets caught between the two. The same thing constantly happens to Mangala but he's got lucky. Even Demichelis has got that horribly wrong on occasion in the last few games. When he first arrived he cost us about 5 goals getting turned at the halfway line. Nastasic was a disaster at it.

Vinny just needs a run in the team, fit, with a competent defensive mid unit in front of him.

29. You could not make it up Ted, oops you have. Have a nice summer, maybe like him you need a break. Defenders on show last Saturday were hardly seen as they just did the job, no fuss no slipping, diving in or losing a man... Or pointless Yellows. Like I said fine player but flawed as a true W.Class CB


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Re: Denayer, Iheanacho and Lopes to be promoted

Postby carl_feedthegoat » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:09 pm

People live in the past.

Kompany got a fuckign run in the team when he came back from injury and took over from a working unit..............he then made mistake after individual mistake after individual mistake...eventually costing us the league...the end.

Some of the fucking excuses made up to excuse Kompany are laughable.......he was shit this season , criminally shit and last season he was average AT BEST.

Changing the system has FUCKALL to do with poor ball control and shite decision making, 2 things hes guilty as sin at....fuckall to do with not being able to follow Pellegrinis fuckign plan ffs!!

As for being World class today ??? got to be the biggest crock of shit that anyone has every written about a yesteryear player!!!! World class was a few years ago Ted , today hes fuckign pap and no top team would shell out a shit load for him as it would be a huge fucking gamble for them to do so.........Denayer is miles ahead of him and is worth a lot more money, Kompany keeps on giving him advice , maybe it should be the other way round.
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Re: Denayer, Iheanacho and Lopes to be promoted

Postby Ted Hughes » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:45 pm

Thank fuck the manager(s) at City are not & will not be as clueless as some of you lot.

Kompany will be at City for fucking years. You can all fucking bookmark this.
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Re: Denayer, Iheanacho and Lopes to be promoted

Postby mr_nool » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:53 pm

Carl, serious question: how many times have you actually seen Denayer play and against what opposition?

You're of course entitled to your views on Kompany (some which I agree with, some with I find exaggerated), but don't you think you might be pinning too much hopes and expectations on a young lad?
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Re: Denayer, Iheanacho and Lopes to be promoted

Postby twosips » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:58 pm

The whole things a little irrelevant anyway as Kompany will start the season as first choice and as captain. If he does play poorly (which he definitely has been doing so this year) after 5-10 games after a long summer's rest then at least there will be no circumstances to hide behind. We'll know by October if his best days are behind him or not.
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Re: Denayer, Iheanacho and Lopes to be promoted

Postby Douglas Higginbottom » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:04 pm

twosips wrote:The whole things a little irrelevant anyway as Kompany will start the season as first choice and as captain. If he does play poorly (which he definitely has been doing so this year) after 5-10 games after a long summer's rest then at least there will be no circumstances to hide behind. We'll know by October if his best days are behind him or not.


Agreed. I expect him to start with Mangala and Denayer will get in for cup games, through injuries, maybe at full back. He will though get opportunities in pre season I expect where he could possibly blow that thinking out of the water.
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Re: Denayer, Iheanacho and Lopes to be promoted

Postby carl_feedthegoat » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:33 pm

mr_nool wrote:Carl, serious question: how many times have you actually seen Denayer play and against what opposition?

You're of course entitled to your views on Kompany (some which I agree with, some with I find exaggerated), but don't you think you might be pinning too much hopes and expectations on a young lad?


I have friends in Manchester that actually followed him and who rate him above anyone else at the club, I also have some sweaty mates who are celtic fanatcis and are now crying because hes gone after keeping together one of the best defences in Europe (I know its the micky mouse sweaty league , but even so ) I watched him play for Belgium against France and he was fuckign great....seriosuly great.

Even the Belgium manager comments excites everyone, claims he is as cool as Hazard and shows zero nerves , I have every right to think he will be the dogs bollocks..hes nearly there now.
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Re: Denayer, Iheanacho and Lopes to be promoted

Postby Dameerto » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:50 pm

Ted Hughes wrote:Thank fuck the manager(s) at City are not & will not be as clueless as some of you lot.

Kompany will be at City for fucking years. You can all fucking bookmark this.

And so he should be - it's not all that long ago he singlehandedly kept a rampaging Suarez (playing the best football of his life) in his back pocket all game - completely shut him down. Probably one of Vinnie's finest performances and not because of any flamboyant theatrics but because of the discipline he needed and the success with which he carried out the task when put into context with how well Suarez was playing at that time.
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Re: Denayer, Iheanacho and Lopes to be promoted

Postby Plain Speaking » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:07 pm

We need to get Denayer's contract renewed, he's only got 12 months left, according to transfermarkt.
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Re: Denayer, Iheanacho and Lopes to be promoted

Postby Im_Spartacus » Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:05 am

Plain Speaking wrote:We need to get Denayer's contract renewed, he's only got 12 months left, according to transfermarkt.


One would expect then, that this will be the first big test of whether we can give a youngster the game time he needs to aid his development, and whether that game time is enough to satisfy the player that he is genuinely wanted. I'd be surprised if his agent advised him to sign up over the summer unless city make him an exceptionally good offer.
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Re: Denayer, Iheanacho and Lopes to be promoted

Postby Im_Spartacus » Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:12 am

Dameerto wrote:
Ted Hughes wrote:Thank fuck the manager(s) at City are not & will not be as clueless as some of you lot.

Kompany will be at City for fucking years. You can all fucking bookmark this.

And so he should be - it's not all that long ago he singlehandedly kept a rampaging Suarez (playing the best football of his life) in his back pocket all game - completely shut him down. Probably one of Vinnie's finest performances and not because of any flamboyant theatrics but because of the discipline he needed and the success with which he carried out the task when put into context with how well Suarez was playing at that time.



So you want to weigh one game two seasons ago against all the mistakes since?

As I've said several times, it seems something has declined for Vinny perhaps in terms of pace to get him out of trouble. As Someone else observed, facing play he is still generally a good player, however Pellegrinis tactics often leave the defence back peddling against a counter attack, and this is where Kompany is incredibly sloppy and making the wrong decision almost every time, giving away free kicks in key areas, getting booked or sent off, and generally looking a shadow of the player he was.

Either
1: he adapts to the manager's playing style and the type of defending needed
2: we keep on losing or drawing games because of his mistakes
3: he is no longer first choice
4: we wait until a new manager comes in in 12 months time before writing him off completely

The options really are that simple for the club
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Re: Denayer, Iheanacho and Lopes to be promoted

Postby Dameerto » Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:39 am

Whatever his issues are, it's not the style of football we're playing. Since you're making assumptions I'll join in - are you seriously telling me Kompany only had one decent game in Pellegrini's first season in charge?
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Re: Denayer, Iheanacho and Lopes to be promoted

Postby zuricity » Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:49 am

Dameerto wrote:
Ted Hughes wrote:Thank fuck the manager(s) at City are not & will not be as clueless as some of you lot.

Kompany will be at City for fucking years. You can all fucking bookmark this.

And so he should be - it's not all that long ago he singlehandedly kept a rampaging Suarez (playing the best football of his life) in his back pocket all game - completely shut him down. Probably one of Vinnie's finest performances and not because of any flamboyant theatrics but because of the discipline he needed and the success with which he carried out the task when put into context with how well Suarez was playing at that time.



Barca at home ? That recent game ?
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Re: Denayer, Iheanacho and Lopes to be promoted

Postby Im_Spartacus » Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:14 am

Dameerto wrote:Whatever his issues are, it's not the style of football we're playing. Since you're making assumptions I'll join in - are you seriously telling me Kompany only had one decent game in Pellegrini's first season in charge?


The mistakes he has made have been more noticeable in the last year or two, where the mistakes often directly lead to goals or cards. It becomes even more noticeable when more specifically it seems to be an issue with his judgement being rash in trying to cut out a ball or stop an attack early particularly when defending whilst running towards goal. It doesn't matter how many good games he has, he can't win us a game on his own, but if we sling 10 points a season away through his errors he can directly drop points.

So either kompany is declining or the tactics are exposing a flaw which may be being exposed due to a physical issue. He was never before the high risk type, he was confident and cultured, but something is making him shit himself

Either way, we don't have the player we had in 2011
Last edited by Im_Spartacus on Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Denayer, Iheanacho and Lopes to be promoted

Postby Hazy2 » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:30 am

The level we are at CL each season the flaws get exposed. Barca this season was a huge red light, he was lost, when the pressure came.fine player as is Zabba, maybe harsh, but sentiment will not see us get to the top.
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Re: Denayer, Iheanacho and Lopes to be promoted

Postby Im_Spartacus » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:43 am

Hazy2 wrote:The level we are at CL each season the flaws get exposed. Barca this season was a huge red light, he was lost, when the pressure came.fine player as is Zabba, maybe harsh, but sentiment will not see us get to the top.


And the season before when he dived in at Messi resulting in Demichelis' red card
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Re: Denayer, Iheanacho and Lopes to be promoted

Postby Plain Speaking » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:14 am

Im_Spartacus wrote:
Plain Speaking wrote:We need to get Denayer's contract renewed, he's only got 12 months left, according to transfermarkt.


One would expect then, that this will be the first big test of whether we can give a youngster the game time he needs to aid his development, and whether that game time is enough to satisfy the player that he is genuinely wanted. I'd be surprised if his agent advised him to sign up over the summer unless city make him an exceptionally good offer.

We need to offer him "an exceptionally good offer", because he seems an exceptional talent. Imo it would be criminal if he leaves like Milner on a free.
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Re: Denayer, Iheanacho and Lopes to be promoted

Postby Piccsnumberoneblue » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:17 am

Possibly one difference is that in the past the mistakes have not cost us points as often. We just scored more goals, so the mistakes are more easily overlooked.
Although it seems churlish to complain about our attacking efforts, with us being top scorers in the league, it certainly is the case that we lost some of our cutting edge.
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