Getting behind Mancini...

[Alex Sapphire]

Don't understand your first sentence at all. It has precisely the opposite effect

No, it doesn't. You want an extra man in defence, but not two.

3-5-2 v 4-4-2


3-5-2 v 4-3-3


http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/03/24/three-man-defence-in-football

The article's a bit old, but it illustrates the perks & downsides of a back three v certain attacking formations well enough.

we don't play with three centre backs so we do create a free man against a lone striker

[sheblue]

Getting very trendy here with fancy graphics when all we need to do is play a settled team. And stop messing about.

[The Italian Job]

we don't play with three centre backs so we do create a free man against a lone striker

Debatable. We didn't v a decimated Spurs side when we were chasing the game, but yesterday's plan was to stick Zaba in a CB position, regardless of his natural position. We also had Kolarov in midfield after the switch, doesn't mean we played a back 3/5 at that point.

Either way, it didn't work. We were overrun by Madrid & only got better after we switched to a regular back four.

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/11/22/manchester-city-1-1-real-madrid-city-out/

[Alex Sapphire]

Getting very trendy here with fancy graphics when all we need to do is play a settled team. And stop messing about.

mine doesn't mean anything I hope. Which I guess means I agree with you.
However, there's an old adage that the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same things and expect different results
Mancini hasn't cracked it obviously, but in Europe our settled ways were not enough. You could argue we've not progressed, but we are at least trying to work it out and even twatggart needed a few runs at it

[Alex Sapphire]

we don't play with three centre backs so we do create a free man against a lone striker

Debatable. We didn't v a decimated Spurs side when we were chasing the game, but yesterday's plan was to stick Zaba in a CB position, regardless of his natural position. We also had Kolarov in midfield after the switch, doesn't mean we played a back 3/5 at that point.

Either way, it didn't work. We were overrun by Madrid & only got better after we switched to a regular back four.

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/11/22/manchester-city-1-1-real-madrid-city-out/

I didn't see Zabba asked to be a centre back. I don't think that's how we try to deploy it. No defense for the fact that it fails other than that its work in progress, but I can see why he's trying and sometimes it comes off:

http://www.eplindex.com/17484/community-shield-tactical-report-chelsea-fc-2-manchester-city-3.html

[Swales4ever]

I do not like 3-5-2, even less than I do not the strict 4-4-2.
I base my opinion on a rock solid convincement that football games are won, first and foremost, 999 out of 1,000 times, by bossing the middle of the park.... NOT much differently from what is basic for winning a rugby game!
Once obtained the dominance in the core of the game, from there You can develop all the creativity and flamboyant effects You fancy most, flanks included, but very little, and almost accidentally, can happen without that.
There also lasts, imvho, the second reason why England does not achieve in comparison with the merit: the belief deep-rooted in Your DNA, that wingers/flankers are more important than "negative" central midfielders. First being, obviously, the strenuous season.

Once stressed that again, every system has its own merit and can be applied with winning effectiveness to different situation of play and opposition.
PROBLEM is that, to be effective, a system MUST be finely tuned, embossed in the players strength and become an automatic habit/frame of mind.
SHAME ON MANCINI's STUBBORNNESS is NOT the idea itself of adding an additional tactical competence to a team devised to rule the football world, BUT the ORIGINAL SIN of doing it when the time did not allow (players on vacation during preseason) and stick, stubbornly, with making practice of it in official games versus top opponents.

I for one, I always said that I love to see City imposing their style, hence playing 4-2-3-1 the more the possible.
But I have no problem with us switching to different systems for particularl games or frames of, JUST I fully expect that from last night on, that plan will be put into the manager's drawer until next preaseason, when hopefully the whole team might be properly trained to use it effectively.

Let's now get behind the stubborn prick and the lads and keep focussing in confirming the Title with, hopefully, a decent stroll in the Europa Pot, for experience and coefficient purposes.

[Alex Sapphire]

I do not like 3-5-2, even less than I do not the strict 4-4-2.
I base my opinion on a rock solid convincement that football games are won, first and foremost, 999 out of 1,000 times, by bossing the middle of the park.... NOT much differently from what is basic for winning a rugby game!
Once obtained the dominance in the core of the game, from there You can develop all the creativity and flamboyant effects You fancy most, flanks included, but very little, and almost accidentally, can happen without that.
There also lasts, imvho, the second reason why England does not achieve in comparison with the merit: the belief deep-rooted in Your DNA, that wingers/flankers are more important than "negative" central midfielders. First being, obviously, the strenuous season.

Once stressed that again, every system has its own merit and can be applied with winning effectiveness to different situation of play and opposition.
PROBLEM is that, to be effective, a system MUST be finely tuned, embossed in the players strength and become an automatic habit/frame of mind.
SHAME ON MANCINI's STUBBORNNESS is NOT the idea itself of adding an additional tactical competence to a team devised to rule the football world, BUT the ORIGINAL SIN of doing it when the time did not allow (players on vacation during preseason) and stick, stubbornly, with making practice of it in official games versus top opponents.

I for one, I always said that I love to see City imposing their style, hence playing 4-2-3-1 the more the possible.
But I have no problem with us switching to different systems for particularl games or frames of, JUST I fully expect that from last night on, that plan will be put into the manager's drawer until next preaseason, when hopefully the whole team might be properly trained to use it effectively.

Let's now get behind the stubborn prick and the lads and keep focussing in confirming the Title with, hopefully, a decent stroll in the Europa Pot, for experience and coefficient purposes.

How many times have we heard Mancini moan about not having all the players available preseason. Doubt we would have mastered it but we may be further down the road. We do have to have this in our locker, and the only way to master it is in game situations, so I doubt he'll stop trying. Just maybe pick his moments better

[Rag_hater]

Mancini should not be making the tactical errors he is making, certainly not if he wants to be considered a top echelon manager. Starting with 3-5-2 against Real Madrid was really poor judgement, plain and simple. His changes against Spurs were excellent but is one of a few examples of him directly influencing a game for the better that I can think of.

I am moe concerned about the 1st half-2nd half Jeckell andf Hyde that this team has beocme. Often dour in the 1st, usually excellent in the 2nd. Weird.

Not sure it's that different mate. The Mancini principle has always been similar. Bore/pass them to death for 45 or 60 minutes, then really ramp up the pace when the oppo has been running around chasing you for the whole match and is totally knackered. Rarely fails.

Think that's right

[zuricity]

One can go on about formations all night long. it makes no difference if a defender doesn't take the incoming cross as Maicon failed to. It was a gift of a goal that brought about the 20 mins of chaos

[Lee_R]

Trust in Mancini.

BUT whether 3 at the back is sometimes the right approach or not, the fact is were not even nearly good at doing it and we look like a team having a panic attack when we try it. Huge games are not the time to practice it. We have lost important moments this season with this tactic and he should have been smarter.